Christianity in Star Trek

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

 

Atheist and all can have compassion and moral values, but they are based on nothing but what they think, which means that their morals can fluctuate on a whim. Believers have a solid foundation of unchanging morals based in a Truth that eludes nonbelievers. That's the difference.. It has nothing to do with bigotry, but simple biblical absolutes. 

 

Your all searching for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode while simultaneously suggesting that Christians are delusional 

 

 

 

Its been 2000 years since Christ brought the truth and it hasn't burnt out yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it dissipating anytime soon. Consider that if something is actually eternal, its longevity is guaranteed.

 

The wind has gone out of your sails, but Christianity will never burn out and is going full speed ahead, so your comment is kind of a oxymoron. 

 

 

"Nothing to do with bigotry" -- said the Christian bigot.          

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

21 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

 

Atheist and all can have compassion and moral values, but they are based on nothing but what they think, which means that their morals can fluctuate on a whim. Believers have a solid foundation of unchanging morals based in a Truth that eludes nonbelievers. That's the difference.. It has nothing to do with bigotry, but simple biblical absolutes. 

 

Your all searching for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode while simultaneously suggesting that Christians are delusional 

 

 

 

Its been 2000 years since Christ brought the truth and it hasn't burnt out yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it dissipating anytime soon. Consider that if something is actually eternal, its longevity is guaranteed.

 

The wind has gone out of your sails, but Christianity will never burn out and is going full speed ahead, so your comment is kind of a oxymoron. 

 

 

Do you even know what an oxymorn is?  The classic example is "military intelligence".

 

I have come to view Christianity as a virus of the mind.  Yes, much like Herpes, Christianity will be with us for a long, long time.  

 

 

I promised myself that I was done arguing with you.  Yet, here I am.          

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

 

• Jonathan said:-
• Without Christianity, Islam would have taken over the world. 
• Without Islam, Christianity would have taken over the world.
• Christian vs. Christian holy wars are the stuff of legend.
• Muslim vs. Muslim holy wars are the stuff of legend.
• Jewish infighting is also the stuff of legend.  Too much to drag out now.
• The Temple Mount in Jerusalem is the hottest of hot spots.  Good luck cooling that down.

_----------------------------++------------------------

I would argue with Judaism, paganism and possibly Hinduism Christianity would not of existed. Without Christianity Islam would not of existed. Mohammed 's first wife was an ebonite. One of the many early christian splits that retained Judaism and saw Jesus as the good teacher and definitely not god. Mohammed sort to correct the errors as he saw it of Christianity. They did not follow Paul's teachings and saw it as a pagan heresy. Trouble was Ebonites hated this world and felt the sooner it died the quicker would come god 's kingdom. They therefore did not encourage having children and so their christianity died and was swallowed up by  Islam. 

The progression of Christianity and Islam despite the denials was a developing theme rather than a complete birth into what they are now.

As for communism that is a long debate in it'self. After the revolution 17 differing countries tried to invade is. The land owners insisted on ownership and caused mass starvation. Lenin hated Stalin even though Stalin was the Secretary of the party but after Lenin's death Stalin ruled by fear and the revolution was lost and it became a dictatorship. He ran the whole country as one factory and tried to trade with the World but many countries refused to do so. Hence causing a lot of poverty.  It was Stalin who was the butcher and not communism. Was he seen as a god? I doubt it. It is more like if you want to live you best be respectful of this guy.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Pete

[Pete]

That said the Tsar before the revolution was also a butcher who kept the country in poverty and at a pointless losing war with Germany  and on it's other border Japan. We all know how he had the people killed in Red Square. Well that was not the only time he sent the troops in to murder whole groups of people. However he was Royalty and a Christian so we never talk about this.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I had two concerns when I wrote the section on Communism.

 

1.  The cultural impact on America.  To distinguish America from the "Godless Commies" during the Eisenhower Administration in the 1950's.

• The Insertion of Under God into the Pledge of Allegiance.
• Changing the National Motto into One Nation Under God.  Now it's all over the money and various police vehicles.

These are outlandish power grabs by the forces of Theocracy.  Rubbing salt into the wounds, we have the various court rulings that this has nothing to do with religion.  That these are expressions of "patriotism" and "unity".

 

2.  It's amazing that even now, there are so many, who can't tell the difference between Communism and Atheism.

 

• The American Education system has failed. 
• The forces of Theocracy have succeeded in making Atheism into a dirty word.

 

 

 

•  

 

[Key]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:54 AM, Dan56 said:

 

 

Atheist and all can have compassion and moral values, but they are based on nothing but what they think, which means that their morals can fluctuate on a whim. Believers have a solid foundation of unchanging morals based in a Truth that eludes nonbelievers. That's the difference.. It has nothing to do with bigotry, but simple biblical absolutes. 

 

Your all searching for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode while simultaneously suggesting that Christians are delusional 

 

 

 

Its been 2000 years since Christ brought the truth and it hasn't burnt out yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it dissipating anytime soon. Consider that if something is actually eternal, its longevity is guaranteed.

 

The wind has gone out of your sails, but Christianity will never burn out and is going full speed ahead, so your comment is kind of a oxymoron. 

I happened to be rereading this thread, then a thought occurred to me. You are not an atheist, Dan. You can not know what their values and morals are based on. Nor can you truly state with any fact that those can fluctuate on a whim.

Then, as a bonus, you believe you have a solid foundation for those because "truth eludes nonbelievers"? Christians do not have the market of truth cornered, I must tell you.

 

As for the rest, they weren't looking for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode. They were discussing the points of the person who sought to do so in the video by using his own bias.

 

Btw, thanks to the new Republicans with Trump and evangelist supporters, folks are leaving Christian churches in droves. So, at least as organizational congregations, it is indeed showing sign of dying out.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Key said:

I happened to be rereading this thread, then a thought occurred to me. You are not an atheist, Dan. You can not know what their values and morals are based on. Nor can you truly state with any fact that those can fluctuate on a whim.

Then, as a bonus, you believe you have a solid foundation for those because "truth eludes nonbelievers"? Christians do not have the market of truth cornered, I must tell you.

 

As for the rest, they weren't looking for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode. They were discussing the points of the person who sought to do so in the video by using his own bias.

 

Btw, thanks to the new Republicans with Trump and evangelist supporters, folks are leaving Christian churches in droves. So, at least as organizational congregations, it is indeed showing sign of dying out.

 

Just Dan being Dan.  Telling Atheists what we believe, what we think and what we feel.  You know.  Christian humility.  Nobody bothered to respond at the time.  He's not worth arguing with now.

[Dan56]

11 hours ago, Key said:

I happened to be rereading this thread, then a thought occurred to me. You are not an atheist, Dan. You can not know what their values and morals are based on. Nor can you truly state with any fact that those can fluctuate on a whim.

Then, as a bonus, you believe you have a solid foundation for those because "truth eludes nonbelievers"? Christians do not have the market of truth cornered, I must tell you.

 

As for the rest, they weren't looking for answers from a fictional Star Trek episode. They were discussing the points of the person who sought to do so in the video by using his own bias.

 

Btw, thanks to the new Republicans with Trump and evangelist supporters, folks are leaving Christian churches in droves. So, at least as organizational congregations, it is indeed showing sign of dying out.

 

So, what does an atheist base their morals on? That was my point, and not that I know what their morals may or may not be. 

 

I believe Christ was the Truth, because he said so.. An atheist rejects the Truth (Christ).

 

Christianity has been going strong for 2000 years, it will never die-out. "Heaven (sky) and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away" Luke 21:33).

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

14 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

 

I believe Christ was the Truth, because he said so.. An atheist rejects the Truth (Christ).

 

 

 

Your declarations are clear enough.  Nothing that I say to you will change anything.  I am not motivated to continue.

 

[Key]

On 3/1/2022 at 11:11 PM, Dan56 said:

 

So, what does an atheist base their morals on? That was my point, and not that I know what their morals may or may not be. 

 

I believe Christ was the Truth, because he said so.. An atheist rejects the Truth (Christ).

 

Christianity has been going strong for 2000 years, it will never die-out. "Heaven (sky) and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away" Luke 21:33).

You're kidding, right? Knowledge of right and wrong, AKA morals, is not exclusive to what one's belief system is based on.

Atheist, that I know of, reject Christ only as a deity. They see value in his teachings, but see no proof of his divinity. 

Jesus did not set out to start a religion. So while His teachings continue, the religion He did not establish may die, even as the religion He did believe in while alive continues, (Judaism).

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

30 minutes ago, Key said:

You're kidding, right? Knowledge of right and wrong, AKA morals, is not exclusive to what one's belief system is based on.

Atheist, that I know of, reject Christ only as a deity. They see value in his teachings, but see no proof of his divinity. 

Jesus did not set out to start a religion. So while His teachings continue, the religion He did not establish may die, even as the religion He did believe in while alive continues, (Judaism).

 

By my reading of the Gospels, Jesus had his flaws as a man.

 

Consider the story of the fig tree.  It was out of season to bear fruit, so Jesus killed it because he was hungry and in a bad mood.

 

Dude had a temper.  If this is how he treats a tree, how is he going to treat an actual opponent?  So much for - "Love your enemies."

 

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, Key said:

You're kidding, right? Knowledge of right and wrong, AKA morals, is not exclusive to what one's belief system is based on.

Atheist, that I know of, reject Christ only as a deity. They see value in his teachings, but see no proof of his divinity. 

Jesus did not set out to start a religion. So while His teachings continue, the religion He did not establish may die, even as the religion He did believe in while alive continues, (Judaism).

 

Correct, I never meant to imply that morals were exclusive to a person with beliefs, only that atheist don't have a foundation of which they base their morals on.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

By my reading of the Gospels, Jesus had his flaws as a man.

 

Consider the story of the fig tree.  It was out of season to bear fruit, so Jesus killed it because he was hungry and in a bad mood.

 

Dude had a temper.  If this is how he treats a tree, how is he going to treat an actual opponent?  So much for - "Love your enemies."

 

 

That was no flaw, but a prophecy. The fig tree is symbolic of Jerusalem.

 

The time had come for God’s people to yield fruit that would bless the world (Isa. 27:6). Several times the prophets describe God as inspecting Israel for “early figs,” as a sign of spiritual fruitfulness (Mic. 7:1; Jer. 8:13; Hos. 9:10–17), but he finds “no first-ripe fig that my soul desires.” So in two exiles (Assyrian and Babylonian), God pours out the curse of barrenness (Hos. 9:16), and Israel becomes a rotten fig (Jer. 29:17).

 

After rejecting and killing Messiah, Israel became a withered nation that disappeared. But another prophecy states that after the time of the fulfillment of the gentiles, Israel would be reoccupied at the end times.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

10 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Correct, I never meant to imply that morals were exclusive to a person with beliefs, only that atheist don't have a foundation of which they base their morals on.

 

 

That was no flaw, but a prophecy. The fig tree is symbolic of Jerusalem.

 

The time had come for God’s people to yield fruit that would bless the world (Isa. 27:6). Several times the prophets describe God as inspecting Israel for “early figs,” as a sign of spiritual fruitfulness (Mic. 7:1; Jer. 8:13; Hos. 9:10–17), but he finds “no first-ripe fig that my soul desires.” So in two exiles (Assyrian and Babylonian), God pours out the curse of barrenness (Hos. 9:16), and Israel becomes a rotten fig (Jer. 29:17).

 

After rejecting and killing Messiah, Israel became a withered nation that disappeared. But another prophecy states that after the time of the fulfillment of the gentiles, Israel would be reoccupied at the end times.

 

 

Please Dan.  No more bovine flatulence.  I read the book for myself.

 

 

[Key]

5 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Correct, I never meant to imply that morals were exclusive to a person with beliefs, only that atheist don't have a foundation of which they base their morals on.

 

 

That was no flaw, but a prophecy. The fig tree is symbolic of Jerusalem.

 

The time had come for God’s people to yield fruit that would bless the world (Isa. 27:6). Several times the prophets describe God as inspecting Israel for “early figs,” as a sign of spiritual fruitfulness (Mic. 7:1; Jer. 8:13; Hos. 9:10–17), but he finds “no first-ripe fig that my soul desires.” So in two exiles (Assyrian and Babylonian), God pours out the curse of barrenness (Hos. 9:16), and Israel becomes a rotten fig (Jer. 29:17).

 

After rejecting and killing Messiah, Israel became a withered nation that disappeared. But another prophecy states that after the time of the fulfillment of the gentiles, Israel would be reoccupied at the end times.

 

That is a glaring contradiction, Dan. If there are morals, there is a foundation. But, again, since you are not anything other than Christian, you simply can not understand their beliefs, or lack, that govern them.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 hours ago, Key said:

That is a glaring contradiction, Dan. If there are morals, there is a foundation. But, again, since you are not anything other than Christian, you simply can not understand their beliefs, or lack, that govern them.

 

That is the nature of evidence free, fact free faith.  All convictions.  No reasoning.

[Dan56]

22 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Please Dan.  No more bovine flatulence.  I read the book for myself.

 

 

 

I'm aware of that, but if you think that passage was describing an erratic episode of Jesus losing his temper over a fig tree not yielding fruit, your not reading with any degree of understanding. You have a habit of mocking what you don't comprehend.

 

16 hours ago, Key said:

That is a glaring contradiction, Dan. If there are morals, there is a foundation. But, again, since you are not anything other than Christian, you simply can not understand their beliefs, or lack, that govern them.

 

No contradiction, everyone has morals to some degree, but believers have a foundation outside of themselves..  Is the death penalty wrong? Is homosexuality right? My answers would be rooted in what I believe, and not necessarily in what I personally think or my own moral standards. You no doubt would agree that murder is wrong, but that morality emanates from within your own judgement or what the government tells you. An atheist  morals are not based on any foundation of truth outside of themselves.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I'm aware of that, but if you think that passage was describing an erratic episode of Jesus losing his temper over a fig tree not yielding fruit, your not reading with any degree of understanding. You have a habit of mocking what you don't comprehend.

 

 

No contradiction, everyone has morals to some degree, but believers have a foundation outside of themselves..  Is the death penalty wrong? Is homosexuality right? My answers would be rooted in what I believe, and not necessarily in what I personally think or my own moral standards. You no doubt would agree that murder is wrong, but that morality emanates from within your own judgement or what the government tells you. An atheist  morals are not based on any foundation of truth outside of themselves.

 

 

Where does the text state that it's a parable instead of a narrative?

 

[cuchulain]

10 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I'm aware of that, but if you think that passage was describing an erratic episode of Jesus losing his temper over a fig tree not yielding fruit, your not reading with any degree of understanding. You have a habit of mocking what you don't comprehend.

 

 

No contradiction, everyone has morals to some degree, but believers have a foundation outside of themselves..  Is the death penalty wrong? Is homosexuality right? My answers would be rooted in what I believe, and not necessarily in what I personally think or my own moral standards. You no doubt would agree that murder is wrong, but that morality emanates from within your own judgement or what the government tells you. An atheist  morals are not based on any foundation of truth outside of themselves.

Our foundation outside of ourselves is the process of logic.  We're capable of reasoning out good morals and differentiating from bad ones, such as keeping slaves forever if they have kids with the spouse we provided 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

57 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

Our foundation outside of ourselves is the process of logic.  We're capable of reasoning out good morals and differentiating from bad ones, such as keeping slaves forever if they have kids with the spouse we provided 

 

[Dan56]

7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Where does the text state that it's a parable instead of a narrative?

 

 

“And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.” (Matthew 21:19).

 

“Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:” (Matthew 21:32). This is alluding to the nation, which would wither away. But Israel would be reunited (1948) Jerusalem (1967). The fig tree representing that rebirth, which would signify the end times, "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors" (Verse 33). 

 

It was the old testament prophecy that Jesus was expounding upon, which describes the scattering of Israel (evil figs) “And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.” ( Jeremiah 24:9). But towards the end times, “For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.” (Jeremiah 24:6)