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Pete

Why is it?

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19 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Why don't you think it's a red flag? It's a (very) small step from biometrics (measuring your vitals through your connected devices) to combining them to (already gathered data like) knowing where you are and what you are doing and then deriving insights into your "state of mind" while doing that there... 

 

Yes, that (employment, jobs et cetera) is exactly what triggered me into thinking why are our governments more concerned with doing things like the Chinese did (mass social "distancing", and all the fall out that that brings) instead of the way the Taiwanese government did (extensive testing and targeted isolation which actually is more effective and has less fallout)...? Just doesn't make sense...

It doesn't make sense.  But then, the government has a hard time delivering the mail properly, so it's also not terribly surprising either.

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4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

The facial recognition cameras and coupled databases are (high tech)... 

 

And no need for (expensive, manned) helicopters either: 

 

 

 

Don't just "look" the part. Once your ("smart wearables" transmit) body temperature, heart rate, blood pressure et cetera ('cous "we" are monitoring for viral outbreaks, right?) your state of mind will be quite easy to "read" (and store)...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Smart phones have their own low tech tracking technology.  Of course, it blends with facial recognition.

 

The video is scary.  The more so for being real.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Smart phones have their own low tech tracking technology.  Of course, it blends with facial recognition.

 

The video is scary.  The more so for being real.

 

Yes, in itself GPS (tracking), logging (of activities) and even (bio-) measurement (like body temperature, blood pressure and heart rate) are all "low tech". What makes this new kind of mass surveillance "high tech" is the current day possibilities for storing (big data) and analysing (AI)... As I gave an example above: just imagine the possibilities for "Big brother" once the "men in black" are knocking at your door and ask you why you were angry (easily "measured") while you were listening to the speech of our "great leader (-ship)", either while you were watching youtube or while you were present at that rally...

 

And yes, this video is even more scary (than the one I posted about the "killer drones") because it is real...

 

Now just imagine the possibilities of all this (available) tech in the near future (while we are all "bullied" into compliancy because of "health" surveillance being of the utmost importance)... :coffee::fear:

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They already have computers that flag up odd behaviour in London. 

Another thing about phones. Two terrorists were avoiding talking to each other and were just typing in messages to each other but not sending it. They just showed each other the typed message and then deleted it. They thought they were safe. However, the police still managed to get the messages and jail them for it. Nothing is safe online and they already know a lot more about than you think.

Another thing police in the UK, in the Derbyshire peak district (A large natural park) have been using drones to pick out walking groups of more than two and warning them. 1984 ain't too far away.

Edited by Pete

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3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Yes, in itself GPS (tracking), logging (of activities) and even (bio-) measurement (like body temperature, blood pressure and heart rate) are all "low tech". What makes this new kind of mass surveillance "high tech" is the current day possibilities for storing (big data) and analysing (AI)... As I gave an example above: just imagine the possibilities for "Big brother" once the "men in black" are knocking at your door and ask you why you were angry (easily "measured") while you were listening to the speech of our "great leader (-ship)", either while you were watching youtube or while you were present at that rally...

 

And yes, this video is even more scary (than the one I posted about the "killer drones") because it is real...

 

Now just imagine the possibilities of all this (available) tech in the near future (while we are all "bullied" into compliancy because of "health" surveillance being of the utmost importance)... :coffee::fear:

 

 

It was the President's great leadership.  His profound wisdom.  His glorious Charisma.  His inspired vision.  Of course, I got excited.  Who wouldn't?  

 

:D   

 

 

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Trump, the most intelligent man in the world, the Pope, Angela Merkel and a Schoolboy were in an airplane.  The pilot rushed in and said grab a parachute as the plane is going to crash. He then Jumped out. Noticing that they were short of parachutes the most intelligent man grabbed a bag and jumped out. The Pope said I am in charge of the Catholic church and its important that I survive and so he grabbed a bag and jumped out. Angela Merkel said to the boy that means there is only one parachute left and said to the boy that he should have the last bag as I have lived my life. The Schoolboy replied that there was two parachutes left as the most intelligent man in the world had grabbed his satchel and therefore they were both saved.

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

Trump, the most intelligent man in the world, the Pope, Angela Merkel and a Schoolboy were in an airplane.  The pilot rushed in and said grab a parachute as the plane is going to crash. He then Jumped out. Noticing that they were short of parachutes the most intelligent man grabbed a bag and jumped out. The Pope said I am in charge of the Catholic church and its important that I survive and so he grabbed a bag and jumped out. Angela Merkel said to the boy that means there is only one parachute left and said to the boy that he should have the last bag as I have lived my life. The Schoolboy replied that there was two parachutes left as the most intelligent man in the world had grabbed his satchel and therefore they were both saved.

 

But what about Trump?!? 🙀 Or was it...

 

Anyhow, in Spain - where there is a "state of emergency" - it was announced today that Spain is Launching Mobile Phone Tracking to See if Lockdown Rules are Being Followed (at least Spain still announces such things)...

 

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4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

But what about Trump?!? 🙀 Or was it...

 

Anyhow, in Spain - where there is a "state of emergency" - it was announced today that Spain is Launching Mobile Phone Tracking to See if Lockdown Rules are Being Followed (at least Spain still announces such things)...

 

Trump was the the one claiming to be the most intelligent man in the world.

As for spain. Pick up an old mobile to go out with. Something that uses only data on the phone or leave it at home on the cats collar.

That said a man passed my wife who is 70 and talked loudly on his mobile and said that he had the virus and therefore would not be into work. I just hope my wife has not caught anything. Her chest is not good.

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4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

But what about Trump?!? 🙀 Or was it...

 

Anyhow, in Spain - where there is a "state of emergency" - it was announced today that Spain is Launching Mobile Phone Tracking to See if Lockdown Rules are Being Followed (at least Spain still announces such things)...

 

 

 

I have become a pessimist.  I think Trump will be reelected.

 

:mellow:

 

 

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8 hours ago, Pete said:

Trump was the the one claiming to be the most intelligent man in the world.

As for spain. Pick up an old mobile to go out with. Something that uses only data on the phone or leave it at home on the cats collar.

That said a man passed my wife who is 70 and talked loudly on his mobile and said that he had the virus and therefore would not be into work. I just hope my wife has not caught anything. Her chest is not good.

 

I got that (joke)... you didn't get mine...? Maybe lost in translation..

 

Anyhow, yes... that "trick" with the old phone might work (but it would have to be a really old phone as the FCC mandated all cellphones to have GPS back in 2011), for now... Why "for now"? Well simple: as I have already explained above; soon it will be mandatory to also provide your biometrics along with your location. (It's all about "health", right?) And your heartbeat is even more unique than your fingerprint (actually why I can pay with my Apple watch even without putting in any kind of PIN or providing a fingerprint). So, unless you are in the extraordinary position to have a cat with exactly the same heartbeat as you have... you catch my drift. So by then, you would probably be asked nicely for your reasons to have removed your "health monitoring device". And - who knows - after a couple of "nice questions" and an "explanation" you might even get "invited" to a nice little "bootkamp" to be "instructed" on the "use" of said devices...

 

But I sincerely hope your wife (and you -off course) are/will be OK!

 

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I have become a pessimist.  I think Trump will be reelected.

 

:mellow:

 

I thought he would be elected (given the "times" we live in) and certainly he will be reelected (he's not going in the history-books as the wimp that didn't get reelected - especially during a "crisis").

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It's not hard at all for me to leave the phone at home.  I am barely proficient enough to call or text, the other fancy stuff is just flat out.  But I have always been a low tech person.

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1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

I got that (joke)... you didn't get mine...? Maybe lost in translation..

 

Anyhow, yes... that "trick" with the old phone might work (but it would have to be a really old phone as the FCC mandated all cellphones to have GPS back in 2011), for now... Why "for now"? Well simple: as I have already explained above; soon it will be mandatory to also provide your biometrics along with your location. (It's all about "health", right?) And your heartbeat is even more unique than your fingerprint (actually why I can pay with my Apple watch even without putting in any kind of PIN or providing a fingerprint). So, unless you are in the extraordinary position to have a cat with exactly the same heartbeat as you have... you catch my drift. So by then, you would probably be asked nicely for your reasons to have removed your "health monitoring device". And - who knows - after a couple of "nice questions" and an "explanation" you might even get "invited" to a nice little "bootkamp" to be "instructed" on the "use" of said devices...

 

But I sincerely hope your wife (and you -off course) are/will be OK!

 

 

I thought he would be elected (given the "times" we live in) and certainly he will be reelected (he's not going in the history-books as the wimp that didn't get reelected - especially during a "crisis").

It is becoming a frightening world. I am not sure about the biometrics identifying people. As a nurse I used to take and record many of these a day. A person can vary a lot. I have blood pressure problems and take meds. It can vary between 130/80 to 200+/110. My pulse also varies between 70 to 110 and occasionally I get ectopic beats. 

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4 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

It's not hard at all for me to leave the phone at home.  I am barely proficient enough to call or text, the other fancy stuff is just flat out.  But I have always been a low tech person.

I get that and when I was working there were times I did not want calls so I turned it off and left it at home. 

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2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

It's not hard at all for me to leave the phone at home.  I am barely proficient enough to call or text, the other fancy stuff is just flat out.  But I have always been a low tech person.

 

Sure, but are you (also) sure it will remain your own choice whether to take it with you or not...?

 

2 hours ago, Pete said:

It is becoming a frightening world. I am not sure about the biometrics identifying people. As a nurse I used to take and record many of these a day. A person can vary a lot. I have blood pressure problems and take meds. It can vary between 130/80 to 200+/110. My pulse also varies between 70 to 110 and occasionally I get ectopic beats. 

 

True, but these numbers are - relatively - quite small (just s string of a couple of numbers) so they can easily be stored (and together with a large set of a lot of measurements of a lot of people make "big data") and analysed (using AI which will eventually take into account your state [-s like sleeping, awake, resting, working, sporting] and your other medicals [like conditions, medicine use et cetera] to derive knowledge (and ongoing learning, like they already have done with your heartbeat - for instance)...

 

It will (very quickly) come to a point where your "state of mind" will be deductible of your biometrics, combine that with an "overall panic/scare" it will also (very quickly) become a case of "guilty until proven innocent"... ('couse, hey! Better save than sorry. Right?)

 

 

Edited by RevBogovac

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4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

I got that (joke)... you didn't get mine...? Maybe lost in translation..

 

Anyhow, yes... that "trick" with the old phone might work (but it would have to be a really old phone as the FCC mandated all cellphones to have GPS back in 2011), for now... Why "for now"? Well simple: as I have already explained above; soon it will be mandatory to also provide your biometrics along with your location. (It's all about "health", right?) And your heartbeat is even more unique than your fingerprint (actually why I can pay with my Apple watch even without putting in any kind of PIN or providing a fingerprint). So, unless you are in the extraordinary position to have a cat with exactly the same heartbeat as you have... you catch my drift. So by then, you would probably be asked nicely for your reasons to have removed your "health monitoring device". And - who knows - after a couple of "nice questions" and an "explanation" you might even get "invited" to a nice little "bootkamp" to be "instructed" on the "use" of said devices...

 

But I sincerely hope your wife (and you -off course) are/will be OK!

 

 

I thought he would be elected (given the "times" we live in) and certainly he will be reelected (he's not going in the history-books as the wimp that didn't get reelected - especially during a "crisis").

 

It's part of a larger picture.  The world has fallen in love with authoritarian figures.

 

In the previous (2016) election cycle, I predicted that Trump would be the Republican candidate.  Among the various Republican choices, I decided that Trump was the worst possible outcome.  He won.  In the general election, I decided that Trump was a worse outcome than Hillary.  Again, Trump won.  Here we are again.  I look at the Democratic candidates still running.  Again, Trump is the worst possible outcome.  I conclude from this that Trump will win.  Again.

 

Trump is not the problem.  He is a symptom.  In a Democracy, the people get what they deserve.

 

:sigh2:

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

[...] Trump is not the problem.  He is a symptom.  In a Democracy, the people get what they deserve.

 

:sigh2:

 

That is - again - an ancient wisdom: the people (every nation) get(-s) the government they (it) deserve(-s).

 

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16 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

That is - again - an ancient wisdom: the people (every nation) get(-s) the government they (it) deserve(-s).

 

 

 

We can say that more simply.  Stupidity is it's own reward.  

 

:sigh2:

 

 

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On 4/3/2020 at 3:29 PM, RevBogovac said:

Sure, but are you (also) sure it will remain your own choice whether to take it with you or not...?

 

True, but these numbers are - relatively - quite small (just s string of a couple of numbers) so they can easily be stored (and together with a large set of a lot of measurements of a lot of people make "big data") and analysed (using AI which will eventually take into account your state [-s like sleeping, awake, resting, working, sporting] and your other medicals [like conditions, medicine use et cetera] to derive knowledge (and ongoing learning, like they already have done with your heartbeat - for instance)...

 

It will (very quickly) come to a point where your "state of mind" will be deductible of your biometrics, combine that with an "overall panic/scare" it will also (very quickly) become a case of "guilty until proven innocent"... ('couse, hey! Better save than sorry. Right?)

 

The steps are being taken as we speak. First by China, as Wuhan Loosens Restrictions on Movement as Local Spread of Coronavirus Eases but "people wishing to leave the province will need to show a 'health code,' a digital health certificate issued by the province"... This is (part of) an app that tracks your movements and registers whether you have been in contact with someone who has been diagnosed with Covid-19. (And yes, as discussed previously, these kind of apps - for now - are easily "deceivable"... for now...) 

 

And now, here in the "progressive/liberal" Netherlands, the government is seriously investigating possibilities of implementing this kind of app/certificate here too... Of course, it won't be "mandatory" but if you would like to use certain "privileges" (going into public offices, restaurants, concert halls, theatres, stadiums, shops whatever...) it will be "needed" (thus - de facto - becoming... mandatory).

 

:coffee:

 

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49 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

The steps are being taken as we speak. First by China, as Wuhan Loosens Restrictions on Movement as Local Spread of Coronavirus Eases but "people wishing to leave the province will need to show a 'health code,' a digital health certificate issued by the province"... This is (part of) an app that tracks your movements and registers whether you have been in contact with someone who has been diagnosed with Covid-19. (And yes, as discussed previously, these kind of apps - for now - are easily "deceivable"... for now...) 

 

And now, here in the "progressive/liberal" Netherlands, the government is seriously investigating possibilities of implementing this kind of app/certificate here too... Of course, it won't be "mandatory" but if you would like to use certain "privileges" (going into public offices, restaurants, concert halls, theatres, stadiums, shops whatever...) it will be "needed" (thus - de facto - becoming... mandatory).

 

:coffee:

 

 

 

 

That is a good summery.  It leaves out a few details.  The police will have our genetic profile available.  Combined with our biometrics.  Throw in facial recognition and the all seeing eye that is AI......

 

The future will be interesting.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

That is a good summery.  It leaves out a few details.  The police will have our genetic profile available.  Combined with our biometrics.  Throw in facial recognition and the all seeing eye that is AI......

 

The future will be interesting.

 

:mellow:

 

 

And the "blackmailing" has already begun (here in the Netherlands). The minister of Healthcare - in a reaction to the privacy/constitutional rights movement - has responded that the lockdown will take longer without a corona app.

 

Am I the only one who responds "badly" to blackmailing...? :coffee:

 

 

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