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3 hours ago, Nathaniel said:

I had been very strongly influenced against homeopathy by Penn and Teller and I liked to poke fun at it. Then my allergies were acting up and I went to a drug store for an antihistamine. Next to them on the shelf were homeopathic allergy pills. They were less expensive than the allopathic so I thought "What the hey. I'll give it a try" expecting them to not work and I would have to return for a bottle of allopathic medicine. Instead, the pills worked. Not as well or for as long as an allopathic antihistamine, but it worked. I was quite shocked. Though I have never used a homeopathic med again, I am nonetheless no longer inclined to dismiss homeopathy completely.

 

 

Placebos often seem to work.  Our minds can make us sick.  Our minds can make us well.  To a point.  Past that point, is where we need medical science.

 

:mellow:

 

I do understand your perspective.  I have extensive training in Reiki.  Also, training in Therapeutic Touch.  Yes.  People do rush to judgement about what does and does not work.  

 

If you're interested, I think that's a side conversation.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl
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Surprise.  There are plenty of bogus things on the market.  It should not be so, but it is.  I don't understand why the government permits this.  The FDA is a miserable watch dog.      

The large font is because I like to edit my stuff.  I wear bifocals.  My computer screen is mid range.  Small letters on the screen are hard to read.  The rest is personal style.  Nothing mean is inte

Trust me. When Jonathan gets knives out sharp, you'll know.

On 3/15/2020 at 7:16 AM, Nathaniel said:

I had been very strongly influenced against homeopathy by Penn and Teller and I liked to poke fun at it. Then my allergies were acting up and I went to a drug store for an antihistamine. Next to them on the shelf were homeopathic allergy pills. They were less expensive than the allopathic so I thought "What the hey. I'll give it a try" expecting them to not work and I would have to return for a bottle of allopathic medicine. Instead, the pills worked. Not as well or for as long as an allopathic antihistamine, but it worked. I was quite shocked. Though I have never used a homeopathic med again, I am nonetheless no longer inclined to dismiss homeopathy completely.

While I wouldn't completely dismiss homeopathic remedies, I also don't think they should be sold or displayed next to more legitimate medicines. Nor would I endorse them as medical cures unless there are clinical proof of it.

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32 minutes ago, Key said:

While I wouldn't completely dismiss homeopathic remedies, I also don't think they should be sold or displayed next to more legitimate medicines. Nor would I endorse them as medical cures unless there are clinical proof of it.

 

 

It's an old joke.  What do we call alternative medicine that works?  Medicine.

 

The joke isn't funny.  Only true.

 

:mellow:

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl
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1 minute ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It's an old joke.  "What do we call "alternative medicine" that works?  "Medicine".

 

The joke isn't funny.  Only true.

 

:mellow:

 

 

True, it isn't funny. 😉 

If it works, and has clinical backing, even FDA approval, to prove what it does, then, yes, it is medicine and should be displayed and sold as such.

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3 minutes ago, Key said:

True, it isn't funny. 😉 

If it works, and has clinical backing, even FDA approval, to prove what it does, then, yes, it is medicine and should be displayed and sold as such.

 

 

Clinical backing?  Homeopathic?  That seems unlikely.  A product can be legal without being valid.

 

:mellow:

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Clinical backing?  Homeopathic?  That seems unlikely.  A product can be legal without being valid.

 

:mellow:

 

 

Only legal as long as it isn't making invalid claims, (even by implication in some areas).

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2 minutes ago, Key said:

Only legal as long as it isn't making invalid claims, (even by implication in some areas).

 

 

 

Surprise.  There are plenty of bogus things on the market.  It should not be so, but it is.  I don't understand why the government permits this.  The FDA is a miserable watch dog.  

 

 

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On 3/20/2020 at 6:50 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

 

Surprise.  There are plenty of bogus things on the market.  It should not be so, but it is.  I don't understand why the government permits this.  The FDA is a miserable watch dog.  

 

 

Part of the reason for it, most of those products have a small print disclaimer on them that state "any claims of product not validated or approved by FDA", or something such. So as to insulate themselves from any false advertising suits.

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45 minutes ago, Key said:

Part of the reason for it, most of those products have a small print disclaimer on them that state "any claims of product not validated or approved by FDA", or something such. So as to insulate themselves from any false advertising suits.

 

 

"Not intended to treat, prevent or diagnose......."

 

Yes.  I know about disclaimers.  They tend to be transparent crap.  We can almost hear the scammers snicker.

 

:sigh2:

 

 

 

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Are you talking actual homeopathic or herbal remedies? Herbal remedies do work and are legitimate. A tea made from the bark of Aspen relieves aches and pains; from it was derived acetylsalicylic acid, or aspirin. And where herbal medicines actually contain plant material, homeopathics are dilutions to parts per million, billion? And isn't the more diluted the solution the stronger the 'medicine'?

 

I can tell you from personal experience that rubbing the sap from a crushed jewel weed will heal poison ivy as well as warts. And interestingly, as I am writing this I looked up jewel weed to make sure I had the right plant in mind and what do I see as other properties:

"Jewelweed contains a compound called lawsone in its leaves proven to have anti-histamine and anti-inflammatory properties."

(http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/fieldbio/medicinal_plants/pages/Jewelweed.htm)

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2 hours ago, damnthing said:

Are you talking actual homeopathic or herbal remedies? Herbal remedies do work and are legitimate. A tea made from the bark of Aspen relieves aches and pains; from it was derived acetylsalicylic acid, or aspirin. And where herbal medicines actually contain plant material, homeopathics are dilutions to parts per million, billion? And isn't the more diluted the solution the stronger the 'medicine'?

 

I can tell you from personal experience that rubbing the sap from a crushed jewel weed will heal poison ivy as well as warts. And interestingly, as I am writing this I looked up jewel weed to make sure I had the right plant in mind and what do I see as other properties:

"Jewelweed contains a compound called lawsone in its leaves proven to have anti-histamine and anti-inflammatory properties."

(http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/fieldbio/medicinal_plants/pages/Jewelweed.htm)

 

 

You don't have to sell me on natural remedies.  My Rheumetologist (Arthritis specialist) has me taking Vitamin D3, Cinnamon, Ginger and fish oil.  When things are proven to work, they become part of real medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

You don't have to sell me on natural remedies.  My Rheumetologist (Arthritis specialist) has me taking Vitamin D3, Cinnamon, Ginger and fish oil.  When things are proven to work, they become part of real medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you explored curcumin? Helps me with a bad knee and cranky joints in general. Long term I've seen considerable improvement but not taking for a few days and gains seem to fade.

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1 minute ago, damnthing said:

Have you explored curcumin? Helps me with a bad knee and cranky joints in general. Long term I've seen considerable improvement but not taking for a few days and gains seem to disappear.

 

 

I did try it.  If it helped at all, it was too subtle to notice.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

I feel this discussion is blurring the distinction between homeopathy (as founded by Samuel Hahnemann) and naturopathy (as provided by "mother Earth"...).

 

 

Most of the time, Natural is good.  Poison Ivy is all natural.  I wouldn't make tea with it.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Most of the time, Natural is good.  Poison Ivy is all natural.  I wouldn't make tea with it.

 

 

 

Yes, but that can be scientifically deduced... I thought this discussion was more about (Hahnemann's) homeopathy, which can not... 

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2 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

Yes, but that can be scientifically deduced... I thought this discussion was more about (Hahnemann's) homeopathy, which can not... 

 

 

The original topic was resisting Homeopathic.  Of course, Homeopathic isn't scientific.  That's a given.  Since then, we have drifted into natural healing.  Practical uses of vitamins, herbs, fish oil  and such.

 

:mellow:

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl
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20 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

The original topic was resisting Homeopathic.  Of course, Homeopathic isn't scientific.  That's a given.  Since then, we have drifted into natural healing.  Practical uses of vitamins, herbs, fish oil  and such.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

OK, this may get a bit "lost in translation"; but I have no problem whatsoever "resisting" (the use of) homeopathic. I think it's a load of bullocks. There is no scientific proof whatsoever it works (and as you have stated often: if there were scientific proof it would have been called Medicine). The use of natural healing however has been documented and proved in some cases and in those cases it can be very beneficial... but back to resisting homeopathic... 

 

:coffee:

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1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

OK, this may get a bit "lost in translation"; but I have no problem whatsoever "resisting" (the use of) homeopathic. I think it's a load of bullocks. There is no scientific proof whatsoever it works (and as you have stated often: if there were scientific proof it would have been called Medicine). The use of natural healing however has been documented and proved in some cases and in those cases it can be very beneficial... but back to resisting homeopathic... 

 

:coffee:

 

 

I think we agree.  Is there a problem?   

 

 

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