Spirituality for the none religious

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Yeah, it says something about me; it just gives me a "spiritual moment" putting things in (numerical) perspective... 

 

Another example would be a numerical comparison of the number of grains of sand on our planet and the number of stars in our universe... just for (my?) fun and perspective...

 

 

 

 

I like that one also.  It's BIG out there.         

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[RevBogovac]

18 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I like that one also.  It's BIG out there.         

 

It is, isn't it...? 

 

PS. But some people think we (that ONE grain) are SO important that we are the grain everything else revolves around (and not even talking about the astronomic/geocentric perspective)...

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

It is, isn't it...? 

 

PS. But some people think we (that ONE grain) are SO important that we are the grain everything else revolves around (and not even talking about the astronomic/geocentric perspective)...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a way, that's true.  I'm at the center of my Universe.

 

In one of the Buddhist stories, someone comes to the Buddha with a question.  "Is it true that when you were born, you proclaimed yourself the center of the Universe?"  Buddha smiled.  "Yes.  Don't all babies do that?"

 

One of the great discoveries of Cosmology, is that the Universe has no center.      

 

This is a lesson which is lost in Genesis:

 

The Creation was a six day process, followed by the seventh day when God rested.  Look what happens on the fourth day.

 

¹⁴ And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ¹⁵ and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. ¹⁶ God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. ¹⁷ God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, ¹⁸ to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

The creation of the Earth, Sun and Moon was a six day process.  The rest of the Universe -- He also made the stars.   --  was a thought in passing, on the fourth day.  Little twinkly things, set in the vault of the sky -- to give light on the earth,

 

It's the kind of thing, that makes it difficult to take the inerrant Word seriously.

 

   

 

 

[Pete]

I deliberately avoided that qoute, but yes it makes no sense.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I deliberately avoided that qoute, but yes it makes no sense.

 

 

The people who came up with that sublime wisdom; didn't know where the Sun goes at night. They thought that the world looked like a snow globe, with the stars stuck to the glass.   Little twinkly things, that sometimes fell to the ground. The rest of the Cosmos, so that our night sky could have lights, for decoration.

 

We have made a little bit of progress in 5,000 years.  It's past time to stop worshiping those Scriptures.

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

I work with someone who goes around telling everyone he's the best routinely.  We keep track of numbers at my job.  He also routinely goes off and does other things that take time.  He never gets to even half my numbers but he always has the built in excuse of doing side projects...yet still thinks he is the best.

 

Christians all think their religion is the best, and all have built in excuses for the things that don't make sense in the book... despite the evidence to the contrary.

[RevBogovac]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:43 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

 

 

In a way, that's true.  I'm at the center of my Universe.

 

In one of the Buddhist stories, someone comes to the Buddha with a question.  "Is it true that when you were born, you proclaimed yourself the center of the Universe?"  Buddha smiled.  "Yes.  Don't all babies do that?"

 

One of the great discoveries of Cosmology, is that the Universe has no center.      

 

This is a lesson which is lost in Genesis:

 

The Creation was a six day process, followed by the seventh day when God rested.  Look what happens on the fourth day.

 

¹⁴ And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ¹⁵ and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. ¹⁶ God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. ¹⁷ God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, ¹⁸ to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

The creation of the Earth, Sun and Moon was a six day process.  The rest of the Universe -- He also made the stars.   --  was a thought in passing, on the fourth day.  Little twinkly things, set in the vault of the sky -- to give light on the earth,

 

It's the kind of thing, that makes it difficult to take the inerrant Word seriously.

 

   

 

 

 

 

Yes, in a philosophical way we are all at the centre of our universe (although I highly doubt that's the way the bible means its geocentric view). But yes (too) the astronomy of the bible is laughable; and the evidence absolutely proves that... although 

 

36 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I work with someone who goes around telling everyone he's the best routinely.  We keep track of numbers at my job.  He also routinely goes off and does other things that take time.  He never gets to even half my numbers but he always has the built in excuse of doing side projects...yet still thinks he is the best.

 

Christians all think their religion is the best, and all have built in excuses for the things that don't make sense in the book... despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

Yes (again), absolute "believers" will jump through all kind of hoops/loops just to point out our observation and evidence is flawed and their biblical "evidence" is right... 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I work with someone who goes around telling everyone he's the best routinely.  We keep track of numbers at my job.  He also routinely goes off and does other things that take time.  He never gets to even half my numbers but he always has the built in excuse of doing side projects...yet still thinks he is the best.

 

Christians all think their religion is the best, and all have built in excuses for the things that don't make sense in the book... despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

Yes.  When bald assertions don't meet reality.  

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Yes, in a philosophical way we are all at the centre of our universe (although I highly doubt that's the way the bible means its geocentric view). But yes (too) the astronomy of the bible is laughable; and the evidence absolutely proves that... although 

 

 

Yes (again), absolute "believers" will jump through all kind of hoops/loops just to point out our observation and evidence is flawed and their biblical "evidence" is right... 

 

 

 

Yes.  Just so.

• Evidence that requires belief, is not evidence.
• Faith gets in the way.  Flat Earthers, Creationists, etc.  Pick your favorite example.

That takes us to direct observation.

• Christians are not more happy than everyone else.  This much is obvious.
• Christians are not more ethical than everyone else.  This much is painfully obvious.
• Christians are not more tolerant -- or respectful of difference -- than anybody else.  Oh, please.
• Christians are not more loving than anybody else.  This is why so many Atheists are in the closet.  

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

On 1/12/2020 at 10:06 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

The people who came up with that sublime wisdom; didn't know where the Sun goes at night. They thought that the world looked like a snow globe, with the stars stuck to the glass.   Little twinkly things, that sometimes fell to the ground. The rest of the Cosmos, so that our night sky could have lights, for decoration.

 

We have made a little bit of progress in 5,000 years.  It's past time to stop worshiping those Scriptures.

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

The creation narrative in Genesis divdes it into days, but a day is formed by.the earths rotation in relation to the sun, as it is on all the planets. Yet, the sun was not created till the forth day. Night and day light was created without the sun. Plants and fruits grew before the sun was formed, so I guess photosynthesis was out. It goes on. Some wisdom. Oh! and of course evolution is out and yet early humanoids had differences both physically and genetically. The earth was around billions of years (4.54) and humanoids in various forms only about 2 million. The idea that the earth and the vastness of space was built for us is ludicrous. Known space is about 13 billion light years across and the miniscule earth only has significance to us because we live and grew here.Genesis makes no sense. How much of space we don't know of, who can say. The idea the stars are there to light the night is also daft as many of them are not even visable to the naked eye.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Pete

[Key]

7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Yes.  Just so.

• Evidence that requires belief, is not evidence.
• Faith gets in the way.  Flat Earthers, Creationists, etc.  Pick your favorite example.

That takes us to direct observation.

• Christians are not more happy than everyone else.  This much is obvious.
• Christians are not more ethical than everyone else.  This much is painfully obvious.
• Christians are not more tolerant -- or respectful of difference -- than anybody else.  Oh, please.
• Christians are not more loving than anybody else.  This is why so many Atheists are in the closet.  

 

 

 

 

These are statements made with such a broad stroke of your brush, Jonathan. While on the whole it may be a seeming truth, yet individually, not always so.

You may as well say that bankers aren't always good with money. Some are, some aren't.

[Pete]

Key, Jonathan did not say no Christian ethical and caring. Just no more than anyone else.

[Pete]

That should be =Jonathan did not say that no Christian was ethical and caring. Just no more than other people who do not profess spiritual guidance. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Christian preachers, like to make claims about the effects of Christ, on the lives of Christians.  That their faith has made them more loving than anybody else.  More ethical than others.  More happy.  More stable families.  No.  It doesn't.  The belief persists.

 

One of the expressions of these beliefs, is the various 12 step programs.  The most famous is Alcoholics Annonymous.  In these groups, the belief persists, that if we admit that we are powerless over alcohol -- and "turn our lives over to a higher power (Christ)" -- we can live our lives sober.

 

A.A. is only the most obvious example of this doctrine.  Christ fixes our broken lives.  Christ comes into our broken lives and we are healed.  More happiness, kindness, love, ethics, etc.  We become better people than we are capable of being otherwise.  Our natural lives become supernatural, when Christ enters our hearts.

 

What I conclude from this, is that Christians -- and other people -- believe in all manner of silly things -- without evidence to back it up.  Beliefs and faith do not conflate with facts.  Or reality.

 

    

 

 

In case anybody is wondering -- I've been getting preached at for as long as I can remember.  This horse crap is not complicated.

 

   

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

The creation narrative in Genesis divdes it into days, but a day is formed by.the earths rotation in relation to the sun, as it is on all the planets. Yet, the sun was not created till the forth day. Night and day light was created without the sun. Plants and fruits grew before the sun was formed, so I guess photosynthesis was out. It goes on. Some wisdom. Oh! and of course evolution is out and yet early humanoids had differences both physically and genetically. The earth was around billions of years (4.54) and humanoids in various forms only about 2 million. The idea that the earth and the vastness of space was built for us is ludicrous. Known space is about 13 billion light years across and the miniscule earth only has significance to us because we live and grew here.Genesis makes no sense. How much of space we don't know of, who can say. The idea the stars are there to light the night is also daft as many of them are not even visable to the naked eye.

 

 

Yes.