If Christianity were proven true

[Dan56]

19 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Dude! It's Dan!!! There is no distinction to him; one either beliefs the bible for 100% or reject it... 

 

Hi Dan... 

 

 

 

Now you've got my number... If its not 100%, is not worth the paper its written on.

 

11 hours ago, Key said:

You do know they had little understanding of mental illness back then, right? And why the heck are you bringing in Dr. Spock? His thinking wasn't entirely original, either.

Then, you go and make the broad assumption of "liberals" again. Why? How do you understand it's "most"? Show me the study that says it. This feels insulting to me.

I'm fairly liberal minded, and my kids did get a proper spank when they needed it. Thankfully for me, it didn't happen often. Oh, and I wouldn't have a bear or a dog maul them, either, if they mocked me.

 

Crazy is crazy, I'm sure they recognized it 2000 years ago.. Dr Spock didn't believe in corporal punishment and most liberals don't either.. I don't categorize all liberals to be of an identical mindset, but most share similar philosophical attitudes, e.g; anti-God, pro-abortion, big government, anti-death penalty, etc.. Look at Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, not a ton of difference. That's not a criticism since most conservatives also share similar agenda's. If you disciplined your own children, your probably not as liberal as you think you are? It ranges from blue dog democrats, liberals, progressives, and socialist. I simply believe that punishment should fit the crime, but certainly don't advocate beating kids. I trust that God reacted to the young men who knowing mocked Elisha accordingly. It may have seemed too strict to you, but I'm guessing none of them ever mocked another prophet

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

Now you've got my number... If its not 100%, is not worth the paper its written on.

 

 

Crazy is crazy, I'm sure they recognized it 2000 years ago.. Dr Spock didn't believe in corporal punishment and most liberals don't either.. I don't categorize all liberals to be of an identical mindset, but most share similar philosophical attitudes, e.g; anti-God, pro-abortion, big government, anti-death penalty, etc.. Look at Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, not a ton of difference. That's not a criticism since most conservatives also share similar agenda's. If you disciplined your own children, your probably not as liberal as you think you are? It ranges from blue dog democrats, liberals, progressives, and socialist. I simply believe that punishment should fit the crime, but certainly don't advocate beating kids. I trust that God reacted to the young men who knowing mocked Elisha accordingly. It may have seemed too strict to you, but I'm guessing none of them ever mocked another prophet

 

No subtleties.  No distinctions.  No shades of grey.  No nuances.  All in or all out.  One seamless ideology for all things.  Faith over facts.  Belief over all.  Yes.  I have your number.     

 

Have a blessed day.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:05 PM, Dan56 said:

 

I simply used a modern term to summarize the description of the son; "crazed = insane or wildly out of control". . Its not my scenario, its the bibles, so make of it as you will, I'm just saying what I think.

I understand that most liberals don't believe in discipline, but God obviously doesn't agree with Dr Spock.  "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them" (Proverbs 13:24).

 

 

 

Trump is my shepherd.  I shall not want.     

 

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:32 AM, Dan56 said:

 

Now you've got my number... If its not 100%, is not worth the paper its written on. [...]

 

Yup, I've "got your number" allright... for the rest: "what Jonathan said"...

 

[RevBogovac]

Back on topic... even if, this is a interfaith board, so;

The Blind Men and the Elephant

(poem by John Godfrey Saxe)

 

It was six men of Indostan

To learning much inclined,

Who went to see the Elephant

(Though all of them were blind),

That each by observation

Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,

And happening to fall

Against his broad and sturdy side,

At once began to bawl:

God bless me! but the Elephant

Is very like a wall!

The Second, feeling of the tusk,

Cried, Ho! what have we here

So very round and smooth and sharp?

To me tis mighty clear

This wonder of an Elephant

Is very like a spear!

The Third approached the animal,

And happening to take

The squirming trunk within his hands,

Thus boldly up and spake:

I see, quoth he, the Elephant

Is very like a snake!

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,

And felt about the knee.

What most this wondrous beast is like

Is mighty plain, quoth he;

'Tis clear enough the Elephant

Is very like a tree!

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,

Said: Even the blindest man

Can tell what this resembles most;

Deny the fact who can

This marvel of an Elephant

Is very like a fan!?

The Sixth no sooner had begun

About the beast to grope,

Than, seizing on the swinging tail

That fell within his scope,

I see, quoth he, the Elephant

Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan

Disputed loud and long,

Each in his own opinion

Exceeding stiff and strong,

Though each was partly in the right,

And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,

The disputants, I ween,

Rail on in utter ignorance

Of what each other mean,

And prate about an Elephant

Not one of them has seen!

-- John Godfrey Saxe

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

Back on topic... even if, this is a interfaith board, so;

The Blind Men and the Elephant

(poem by John Godfrey Saxe)

 

It was six men of Indostan

To learning much inclined,

Who went to see the Elephant

(Though all of them were blind),

That each by observation

Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,

And happening to fall

Against his broad and sturdy side,

At once began to bawl:

God bless me! but the Elephant

Is very like a wall!

The Second, feeling of the tusk,

Cried, Ho! what have we here

So very round and smooth and sharp?

To me tis mighty clear

This wonder of an Elephant

Is very like a spear!

The Third approached the animal,

And happening to take

The squirming trunk within his hands,

Thus boldly up and spake:

I see, quoth he, the Elephant

Is very like a snake!

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,

And felt about the knee.

What most this wondrous beast is like

Is mighty plain, quoth he;

'Tis clear enough the Elephant

Is very like a tree!

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,

Said: Even the blindest man

Can tell what this resembles most;

Deny the fact who can

This marvel of an Elephant

Is very like a fan!?

The Sixth no sooner had begun

About the beast to grope,

Than, seizing on the swinging tail

That fell within his scope,

I see, quoth he, the Elephant

Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan

Disputed loud and long,

Each in his own opinion

Exceeding stiff and strong,

Though each was partly in the right,

And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,

The disputants, I ween,

Rail on in utter ignorance

Of what each other mean,

And prate about an Elephant

Not one of them has seen!

-- John Godfrey Saxe

 

 

 

 

Yes.  What happens then, when 2,000 years later, these descriptions become Scripture -- and they are all that we have to go on?  Scripture wars, of course, fulled by blind faith and the insistence that everybody else is wrong.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

"What if you're wrong?"

 

                   

 

 

[Dan56]

On 10/3/2019 at 6:17 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

No subtleties.  No distinctions.  No shades of grey.  No nuances.  All in or all out.  One seamless ideology for all things.  Faith over facts.  Belief over all.  Yes.  I have your number.     

 

 

The truth has no shades of gray, its not a baseless ideology, and faith can be rooted in facts.. But a closed-minded person won't see what's obvious to a believer, they are content to skim over the Word of God and reject it without any understanding or study of its depth. That's fine, but my faith is not baseless or blind, nor can it be disproven by science. What I encounter here is biblical illiteracy, those who have no answers of their own, but are content to condemn others who accept a truth that transcends what they've been taught. That's fine, but it almost seems as though your all more frustrated by you inability to disprove the bible, you simply have no facts, no evidence, and no proof. I can only encourage others to open their minds, put what you've been taught on a shelf, and consider the possibility that a truth beyond what you know exist. Chuck Missler has a 24 part series of Genesis, its a good place to try and re-adjust your thinking of what you think you know. Here are the first two;

 

Chuck Missler Genesis Session 01 - YouTube

 

Chuck Missler Genesis Session 02 - YouTube

Edited October 6, 2019 by Dan56

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

1.  The truth has no shades of gray, its not a baseless ideology, and faith can be rooted in facts.. 2.  But a closed-minded person won't see what's obvious to a believer, they are content to skim over the Word of God and reject it without any understanding or study of its depth. That's fine, but my faith is not baseless or blind, nor can it be disproven by science. What I encounter here is biblical illiteracy, those who have no answers of their own, but are content to condemn others who accept a truth that transcends what they've been taught. That's fine, but it almost seems as though your all more frustrated by you inability to disprove the bible, you simply have no facts, no evidence, and no proof.3.   I can only encourage others to open their minds, put what you've been taught on a shelf, and consider the possibility that a truth beyond what you know exist. Chuck Missler has a 24 part series of Genesis, its a good place to try and re-adjust your thinking of what you think you know. Here are the first two;

  

Chuck Missler Genesis Session 01 - YouTube

 

Chuck Missler Genesis Session 02 - YouTube

 

1.       🌈

 

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Why do you hate reality?     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

1.       🌈

 

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Why do you hate reality?

 

Your reality is limited to this physical world, I simply believe there's more, and the spiritual reality is not something I hate, its something I cherish. If you love the only reality you can see, and your content with a few years of life followed by death, then I suppose you'll be happy, but that doesn't work for me. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I'm beyond words.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[RevBogovac]

5 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

Your reality is limited to this physical world, I simply believe there's more, and the spiritual reality is not something I hate, its something I cherish. If you love the only reality you can see, and your content with a few years of life followed by death, then I suppose you'll be happy, but that doesn't work for me. 

 

 

And there you go (closed-mindedly insulting everybody else) again... sure... only christians look past the physical world... all other people are just apes (right? your words) who don't see past the tree... 

 

Again: this is an interfaith board. I honestly do not understand what you're doing here (except making a point some book is 100% "right", sure)...

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

And there you go (closed-mindedly insulting everybody else) again... sure... only christians look past the physical world... all other people are just apes (right? your words) who don't see past the tree... 

 

Again: this is an interfaith board. I honestly do not understand what you're doing here (except making a point some book is 100% "right", sure)...

 

 

 

 

 

Years back, when Dan was new to the board, he was upfront about his mission of saving souls.  At least, that's how I remember it.  At the time, I was advocating for Pantheism.  I was offended,  when Dan told me that I was an unbeliever.  Memories........       In hindsight, it helped me get to where I am now.     

 

For the rest; Dan just got through explaining that he exists in a different reality.  We keep reminding each other that it's Dan.  Well, it's Dan.  The logic train has left the station.     

 

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

15 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

And there you go (closed-mindedly insulting everybody else) again... sure... only christians look past the physical world... all other people are just apes (right? your words) who don't see past the tree... 

 

Again: this is an interfaith board. I honestly do not understand what you're doing here (except making a point some book is 100% "right", sure)...

 

 

I'm aware its an interfaith board, but note that I'm only responding to a Christian topic.. I see no insults in my comment? The only thing denigrated here is my faith. Christianity is all about looking past the physical world, it offers hope of a spiritual afterlife. So it doesn't bother me that you don't believe it, but it is as you say, 100% my reality. I have considered everything else and rejected it. There just can't be 500 different truths, so I profess the one I've accepted and you can certainly defend whatever you believe.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I'm aware its an interfaith board, but note that I'm only responding to a Christian topic.. I see no insults in my comment? The only thing denigrated here is my faith. Christianity is all about looking past the physical world, it offers hope of a spiritual afterlife. So it doesn't bother me that you don't believe it, but it is as you say, 100% my reality. I have considered everything else and rejected it. There just can't be 500 different truths, so I profess the one I've accepted and you can certainly defend whatever you believe.

 

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

Which of the more than 34000 versions is your accepted truth, Dan?  What if you're wrong?  Odin might be pissed at you when you get to Valhalla... you should repent now just in case.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Which of the more than 34000 versions is your accepted truth, Dan?  What if you're wrong?  Odin might be pissed at you when you get to Valhalla... you should repent now just in case.

 

 

We all know the answer to that one.  Blind Faith.     

 

[Key]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:53 PM, Dan56 said:

 

I'm aware its an interfaith board, but note that I'm only responding to a Christian topic.. I see no insults in my comment? The only thing denigrated here is my faith. Christianity is all about looking past the physical world, it offers hope of a spiritual afterlife. So it doesn't bother me that you don't believe it, but it is as you say, 100% my reality. I have considered everything else and rejected it. There just can't be 500 different truths, so I profess the one I've accepted and you can certainly defend whatever you believe.

That is one view. Another view that many factions hold, is that Christianity is about what we must do in this life to receive the spiritual afterlife we desire. Indeed, much like some Muslim factions, it can lead to efforts of cleansing society of sinners and non-believers. Example: Spanish Inquisition.

Either view, in my mind, is a kind of distortion of what Christ was teaching.

I also think that Satan, if he does exist, would use the truth if it accomplishes what he wants. This is where discernment is greatly tested, no? So many factions, so many truths, but so few are right in the way the truth is used.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

6 hours ago, Key said:

That is one view. Another view that many factions hold, is that Christianity is about what we must do in this life to receive the spiritual afterlife we desire. Indeed, much like some Muslim factions, it can lead to efforts of cleansing society of sinners and non-believers. Example: Spanish Inquisition.

Either view, in my mind, is a kind of distortion of what Christ was teaching.

I also think that Satan, if he does exist, would use the truth if it accomplishes what he wants. This is where discernment is greatly tested, no? So many factions, so many truths, but so few are right in the way the truth is used.

 

 

 

You want to bring logic into this.  Cool.

 

All of the religions -- and religious factions -- of the world, can't all be right.  They can all be wrong.

 

It takes blind faith for a person to believe that his religion got it right -- and all the other religions got it wrong.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

14 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Which of the more than 34000 versions is your accepted truth, Dan?  What if you're wrong?  Odin might be pissed at you when you get to Valhalla... you should repent now just in case.

 

Christ said that he was the Truth, and there's only one version of that... What if I'm wrong? I'm no worse off... What if your wrong?

 

7 hours ago, Key said:

That is one view. Another view that many factions hold, is that Christianity is about what we must do in this life to receive the spiritual afterlife we desire. Indeed, much like some Muslim factions, it can lead to efforts of cleansing society of sinners and non-believers. Example: Spanish Inquisition.

Either view, in my mind, is a kind of distortion of what Christ was teaching.

I also think that Satan, if he does exist, would use the truth if it accomplishes what he wants. This is where discernment is greatly tested, no? So many factions, so many truths, but so few are right in the way the truth is used.

 

Inquisitions were religious movements which may have invoked the name of Christ, but their actions demonstrated they weren't followers of Christ. So I agree, the justification of forcibly or violently cleansing or converting a society in the name of Christ is a complete distortion of his example and everything he taught. I also agree that Satan has and does attempt to contaminate the simple truth by defiling religion, its been his modus operandi from the beginning.

 

29 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

You want to bring logic into this.  Cool.

 

All of the religions -- and religious factions -- of the world, can't all be right.  They can all be wrong.

 

It takes blind faith for a person to believe that his religion got it right -- and all the other religions got it wrong.

 

As I've repeated, while faith cannot be confirmed via objectionable evidence, it's not completely blind either. The bible says the truth is spiritually discerned and offers prophetic evidence to substantiate divine inspiration. But it does boil down to a choice where belief is required. For myself, religious factions or denominations aren't all  synonymous or representative of Christ, that realization was even observed by Christ with his assessment of the 7 churches in Revelation, where he was only satisfied with 2.