Why Did God Create Athiests?

[Pastor Dave]

Ok I have another piece of ancient Jewish wisdom to share. Let's see what you all think of this story. It's been a few years since I heard this one, and it's probably written down somewhere but I can't find it. Forgive me if you know the story and I get anything wrong.

 

There was a Rabbi who upon coming home found that there was a thief in his house robbing him. When the thief heard the Rabbi come in he fled with whatever he already had. The Rabbi ran after him and yelled to the thief, "You can have it". In doing so the Rabbi had released the man from the guilt of his actions.

 

[cuchulain]

20 minutes ago, Pastor Dave said:

Ok I have another piece of ancient Jewish wisdom to share. Let's see what you all think of this story. It's been a few years since I heard this one, and it's probably written down somewhere but I can't find it. Forgive me if you know the story and I get anything wrong.

 

There was a Rabbi who upon coming home found that there was a thief in his house robbing him. When the thief heard the Rabbi come in he fled with whatever he already had. The Rabbi ran after him and yelled to the thief, "You can have it". In doing so the Rabbi had released the man from the guilt of his actions.

 

It sounds like an action that would fit right in with the stoics as well.  I would say that objects are not as important as people, and maybe the Rabbi understood the cycle these things tend to take.  Maybe he thought if he could absolve the thief of wrongdoing, the thief's future actions would change for the better.  Of course, it's all speculation on my part   I don't know, in reality.

[mererdog]

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/256321/jewish/Eight-Degrees-of-Giving.html

Edited March 16, 2018 by mererdog

[Pastor Dave]

On 3/16/2018 at 9:39 AM, cuchulain said:

It sounds like an action that would fit right in with the stoics as well.  I would say that objects are not as important as people, and maybe the Rabbi understood the cycle these things tend to take.  Maybe he thought if he could absolve the thief of wrongdoing, the thief's future actions would change for the better.  Of course, it's all speculation on my part   I don't know, in reality.

Interesting that you, an atheist, and I, a Christian, can see the same thing in this story.

[Pastor Dave]

On 3/16/2018 at 11:12 AM, mererdog said:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/256321/jewish/Eight-Degrees-of-Giving.html

 Interesting read, but I'm not sure how it directly relates to the story.

[mererdog]

1 hour ago, Pastor Dave said:

 Interesting read, but I'm not sure how it directly relates to the story.

From the article- "Whatever form it takes, the Torah regards preserving the dignity and self-respect of the receiver as a cornerstone of tzedakah."

From the story- "In doing so the Rabbi had released the man from the guilt of his actions."

 

In the context of story, the guilt of his actions reduces the thief's self-respect. As such, the rabbi "gifted" not only his belongings, but also the thief's self-worth. According to the ideals presented in the article, this is a higher form of charity.

Edited March 20, 2018 by mererdog

[cuchulain]

1 hour ago, Pastor Dave said:

Interesting that you, an atheist, and I, a Christian, can see the same thing in this story.

i think its part of the human condition...to which we should all have some common ground, eh?

[VonNoble]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:17 AM, Pastor Dave said:

Ok I have another piece of ancient Jewish wisdom to share. Let's see what you all think of this story. It's been a few years since I heard this one, and it's probably written down somewhere but I can't find it. Forgive me if you know the story and I get anything wrong.

 

There was a Rabbi who upon coming home found that there was a thief in his house robbing him. When the thief heard the Rabbi come in he fled with whatever he already had. The Rabbi ran after him and yelled to the thief, "You can have it". In doing so the Rabbi had released the man from the guilt of his actions.

 

Interesting.    

 

One time when I was a small child...we were in a restaurant when two men came in and indicated they had weapons (never seen)(presumed to be handguns) in their jacket pockets.

 

Our family was sitting in a curved booth at the far end of the restaurant with mom on one end of the very large booth & dad on the other.   It was rare for us to get to eat anywhere but home  - so 1) we were on our best behavior 2) we were so engrossed if the big platter of French fries (another rare treat) that none of us kids even knew what was happening till it was over.  We were NOT traumatized...we never missed a French fry

 

While the incident was in progress the woman in the next booth leaned over and told my mom to “ put her diamond ring in her shoe” to avoid having to give it to the thieves presumed to want such thing in a minute or two.

 

There was no robbery.   The would-be theived got spooked and ran out without getting anything and everyone went back to eating.  We kids never stopped 

 

When told to hide her diamond my mother had replied. “No.”

 

After the fact the lady next to us walked around the table to question my mom....and mom explained....1) look at this table....I invest in the future...look at this herd of kids-there is no money for diamonds  2) if I did have a diamond I would have given it freely to them

 

Mom’s reasoning is they might well be desperate ( we always had enough...JUST BARELY enough...sometimes we were hungry but never got long)...  and material things should never matter enough to cause harm (she was big on letting go of things always) ....and lastly she said allowing a person to wear the label of “thief” would follow not just this person but the next three generations to follow...so no ring is worth that ripple.  

 

I have nothing to add other than my mom was rather unique with her teachable moments. 

von

[Pastor Dave]

3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

i think its part of the human condition...to which we should all have some common ground, eh?

yes

 

[Brother Kaman]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

Interesting.    

 

One time when I was a small child...we were in a restaurant when two men came in and indicated they had weapons (never seen)(presumed to be handguns) in their jacket pockets.

 

Our family was sitting in a curved booth at the far end of the restaurant with mom on one end of the very large booth & dad on the other.   It was rare for us to get to eat anywhere but home  - so 1) we were on our best behavior 2) we were so engrossed if the big platter of French fries (another rare treat) that none of us kids even knew what was happening till it was over.  We were NOT traumatized...we never missed a French fry

 

While the incident was in progress the woman in the next booth leaned over and told my mom to “ put her diamond ring in her shoe” to avoid having to give it to the thieves presumed to want such thing in a minute or two.

 

There was no robbery.   The would-be theived got spooked and ran out without getting anything and everyone went back to eating.  We kids never stopped 

 

When told to hide her diamond my mother had replied. “No.”

 

After the fact the lady next to us walked around the table to question my mom....and mom explained....1) look at this table....I invest in the future...look at this herd of kids-there is no money for diamonds  2) if I did have a diamond I would have given it freely to them

 

Mom’s reasoning is they might well be desperate ( we always had enough...JUST BARELY enough...sometimes we were hungry but never got long)...  and material things should never matter enough to cause harm (she was big on letting go of things always) ....and lastly she said allowing a person to wear the label of “thief” would follow not just this person but the next three generations to follow...so no ring is worth that ripple.  

 

I have nothing to add other than my mom was rather unique with her teachable moments. 

von

We were poor when I was a child. I will not go into the details of how poor but if we were in a restaurant (we never did) my momma would have given them anything they asked for but would have died to keep them from stealing it from her or us. Matter of principle she would have said. She always said principles are worth dying for and that was one of hers.

[Pastor Dave]

VonNoble and Brother Kamen,

It sounds like your mothers were saints compared to my mom. My mother would likely have waited for them to get close enough to reach and stuck them with her switchblade that she always  carried in her purse.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Pastor Dave

[Brother Kaman]

33 minutes ago, Pastor Dave said:

VonNoble and Brother Kamen,

It sounds like your mothers were saints compared to my mom. My mother would likely have waited for them to get close enough to reach and stuck them with her switchblade that she always  carried in her purse.

Momma always kept her pistol in her dresser drawer but would still get in anyone's face if the circumstances warranted. And you are right, she was a saint.

[Dan56]

I don't believe God did create atheist.. He didn't create Christians either. God created human's, who independently decide the rest for themselves.

[VonNoble]

14 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

We were poor when I was a child. I will not go into the details of how poor but if we were in a restaurant (we never did) my momma would have given them anything they asked for but would have died to keep them from stealing it from her or us. Matter of principle she would have said. She always said principles are worth dying for and that was one of hers.

Gotta admire her conviction and courage! Thx for sharing the recollection.

von

[cuchulain]

we were poor enough when i was extremely young that we often received donations of meat from hunters and stood in line for government cheese at the housing projects...i miss that cheese, it was good.  my mom decided to change our circumstances and got her 4 year rn in two years, and we werent poor anymore.  i think her hard work was the best lesson i ever had, both in what we can do and in whats worth it.