Your legacy...

[VonNoble]

13 minutes ago, mererdog said:

It is. Everything you do that effects others is a part of your legacy. You may give pain to one and joy to another. You may create one day and destroy the next. Each act leaves a mark, and those marks spell out your legacy. We are not simple creatures, and that is reflected in the complexity of our legacies.

This point is actually what I meant to illustrate when I brought up my wife's mother. The good we do does not make the bad we do go away. Pencils have erasers but life does not, you know? We can repent, reform, and even attempt recompense, but we can't turn back the clock.

I agree.  Up to a point.    

 

Every action has a consequence.   Not every imprint becomes a memory.

 

John McCaines legacy is not the fact he was a prisoner of war.   It is a fact that changed him and the trajectory of his life.... but it is the fiber of his character that we remember

 

Or maybe I am still not getting it... you have helped me before.   I have faith you’ll somehow turn the light on for me 

von

 

 

 

[VonNoble]

25 minutes ago, mererdog said:

Of course. However, trauma can fundamentally change us. Not always, or even necessarily often. But it can

 And when it does, the universe is robbed of the chance to know the person we could have been.

Innocence doesn't grow back. And that is true both for victim and victimizer.

 

Agreed. 

Whew...got that one

von 

[Cornelius]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:23 AM, VonNoble said:

Then you agree our actions now carry forward after us?     What we do now then therefore matters in the future?

 

von

I'm saying we can't know how those actions will carry forward and instead of focusing on a future we will not be a part of we should focus on the here and now.

[mererdog]

On 11/14/2017 at 12:05 PM, VonNoble said:

John McCaines legacy is not the fact he was a prisoner of war.   It is a fact that changed him and the trajectory of his life.... but it is the fiber of his character that we remember

What we remember is a bit irrelevant. An anonymous donation is still a donation. A forgotten debt is still a debt. Our name can be lost and our legacy can still remain.

It works like an inheritance, which is where the term " legacy" comes from. Some parts of an estate will usually be more appreciated than others. Over time, it may be forgotten that a specific item was ever a part of an estate.

 

To the specifics of McCain, he inherited suffering from his captors. That is a part of their legacy. He took what he inherited from them and made something new to pass on to others. That will be a part of his legacy.

 

Yet there is more to any man than that, and a man who lives that long will have necessarily left behind a very complicated estate. One word he said to one person at just the right time may have had a more real and lasting impact on the world than any of the stuff that makes him famous. So a total and accurate accounting of his legacy is impossible for us. We just sort of look at the parts that stand out as important to us and act as if that is all there is.

 

Humans, as a group, do not deal well with complexity or ignorance. So we pretend things are simple, and we pretend we know.

Edited November 16, 2017 by mererdog

[VonNoble]

9 minutes ago, mererdog said:

What we remember is a bit irrelevant. An anonymous donation is still a donation. A forgotten debt is still a debt. Our name can be lost and our legacy can still remain.

It works like an inheritance, which is where the term " legacy" comes from. Some parts of an estate will usually be more appreciated than others. Over time, it may be forgotten that a specific item was ever a part of an estate.

 

To the specifics of McCain, he inherited suffering from his captors. That is a part of their legacy. He took what he inherited from them and made something new to pass on to others. That will be a part of his legacy.

 

Yet there is more to any man than that, and a man who lives that long will have necessarily left behind a very complicated estate. One word he said to one person at just the right time may have had a more real and lasting impact on the world than any of the stuff that makes him famous. So a total and accurate accounting of his legacy is impossible for us. We just sort of look at the parts that stand out as important to us and act as if that is all there is.

 

Humans, as a group, do not deal well with complexity or ignorance. So we pretend things are simple, and we pretend we know.

I am repeating the entire quote as it has heft and worth.   I appreciate your not giving up on me. 

 

We sometimes DO pretend things are simple.   And sometimes we attempt to make the more complex than they are....as all of us rationalize to our own point of comfort.   We are not necessarily pretending.  It is the reality we can work with sometimes. 

 

I appreciate the points you raised.  They have much worth. 

von 

[mererdog]

2 hours ago, VonNoble said:

We are not necessarily pretending. 

Of course. Things are never that simple. In a vast, diverse, and massively interconnected universe where the only real constant is change, how could they be?

One of my favorites-

There is an exception to every rule. That rule is its own exception.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

Of course. Things are never that simple. In a vast, diverse, and massively interconnected universe where the only real constant is change, how could they be?

One of my favorites-

There is an exception to every rule. That rule is its own exception.

 

 

That sounds Taoist.  Is it?     

[Brother Kaman]

25 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

That sounds Taoist.  Is it?     

Rings of Zen, to me.

[mererdog]

I used to play around with verbal paradoxes when I was in my twenties. That's the results of trying to unwind one.

[VonNoble]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:16 PM, Stormbringer said:

I'm saying we can't know how those actions will carry forward and instead of focusing on a future we will not be a part of we should focus on the here and now.

 

The here and now - no matter what the topic - your choices in the now - affect your future trajectory even if you don't weigh that into your actions, no?

 

So I can eat what is on hand because that is all I have.....and not give a thought to the consequences of nutrition, nor amount (gluttony because I can today) .....I just DO...and let the consequences fall where they might.   Nonetheless the hangover for many on January 1st was due to decisions made December 31st.   

 

TRUE TO YOUR POINT...we can't know....then again - I would not drink a bottle of poison because I would not be certain it would not kill me.  There is such a thing as calculated risk taking and decisions based on probability that most of us work into our current decision making.....

 

For those who might be fortunate enough to have accumulated any wealth - they have choices to make regarding the outcome of the material estate (providing for the family, leaving a scholarship in your name for eternity...a trust fund to care for a beloved pet until they too die....)   Lots of decisions are put upon us (including naming a beneficiary to an insurance policy) so in many ways WE DO think of future consequences.   

 

That i true to how we will be remembered or would like to be....no?

 

von

[mererdog]

There is no "now". Time is never static. You always have one foot in the past and one foot in the future. To ignore the future is to ignore one of your feet. That's how you get trench foot. I don't recommend it.

Edited November 21, 2017 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

On 11/16/2017 at 7:16 PM, mererdog said:

I used to play around with verbal paradoxes when I was in my twenties. That's the results of trying to unwind one.

 

 

"When you come to a fork in the road -- pick it up."

 

   

[mererdog]

26 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

"When you come to a fork in the road -- pick it up."

 

   

Ew. I don't want your used utensils.

 

This sentence is false 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 minutes ago, mererdog said:

Ew. I don't want your used utensils.

 

This sentence is false 

 

"Everything I say is a lie."

 

"I'm lying."

 

 

[scottedward]

On 11/7/2017 at 3:48 AM, VonNoble said:

The only thing about you that will live on forever is the kindness you have given.

 

Is that true?

 

von 

 

I'd like to think so.