I am nothing (& so are you)

[VonNoble]

Many people have shaped the world view for each of us.   Some would argue every contact has added at least one drop.

 

A Buddhist teacher explained it with much better imagery-essentially each of us just floats alone... on a raft.   We can tie our raft to others for a time...but no other person can make us happy on this journey.  Conversely no other person can cause us to be sad either.    

 

Was as the Buddhist teacher correct?

If yes, than another person is not the source of anger within any of us?

von

[mark 45]

to an extent yes,he/she was.no one can truly make us happy,nor can they make us angry,if we don't allow them too(at least in theory).

 

*however*it is a fact that in practice,we can indeed become upset with others.and yes sometimes we get very verbal about it.or we can freeze someone out of our thoughts or even life.either can be very hurtful.

 

the dali lama once said (and this is not a direct quote)that we may share the same path for a while,but at some point we will split off and follow our own. 

[Brother Kaman]

No one can make us feel guilty and no one can make us love them. We are the authors of our emotions.

[Dan56]

I believe another person can cause you to be sad or happy... Anyone's who's been married can probably attest to that. (Some times a Princess, other times a bitch)

[VonNoble]

15 hours ago, mark 45 said:

*however*it is a fact that in practice,we can indeed become upset with others.and yes sometimes we get very verbal about it.or we can freeze someone out of our thoughts or even life.either can be very hurtful.

I agree.   Moving toxic people out of our lives could be hurtful.

Then again, it is only hurtful because we WANT the to be different, no?

 

It is because we WANT it to be different, yes?

von

[VonNoble]

15 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

No one can make us feel guilty and no one can make us love them. We are the authors of our emotions.

 

Agreed.   The key to keeping those emotions on an even keel?

von

[VonNoble]

6 hours ago, Dan56 said:

I believe another person can cause you to be sad or happy... Anyone's who's been married can probably attest to that. (Some times a Princess, other times a bitch)

 

  Had to chuckle at that second sentence.   I have been married for 45 years so I know whereof  you speak. 

 

However, maybe it is OUR REACTION to what is said that causes the emotion to fly up.

 

You would walk into my local Starbucks and on a normal day....I can say....."Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee"

No issue there.  We enjoy our chat and coffee.

 

The next day....for whatever reason you are feeling poorly as someone (maybe the not princess person) accused you of being a tightwad or something and your reaction is hyper sensitive to taking freebies from others.   You have been stewing for the past 20 minutes about how YOU DO pay your fair share and that other person is just a block head.....who doesn't know a thing about you and on it goes - all the while getting more and more and ore worked up over the unfair accusation. 

 

NOW you walk in and I say:  "Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee"  And you snap at me and say "NO THANKS...I can buy my own darn coffee."  

 

Same Starbucks....same me....same you...same sentence.  DIFFEENT REACTION

 

Who changed the dynamic but you?

 

it is our reaction that shifts, no?     At times we are amused by stupid comments.  At times we overreact. 

The choice of reaction is always ours, no?

 

von

 

 

[Brother Kaman]

5 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

Agreed.   The key to keeping those emotions on an even keel?

von

I have no key to controlling an emotional response beyond working to discipline one's self. Like all disciplines, it is not easy from what I have observed by my behavior and that of others.

[cuchulain]

I think the Buddhist understanding is that through desire we suffer.  The cause of our suffering in interactions with others most often arises out of unsatisfied desires of the outcome of those desires.  In other words, we build anticipation, and thus disappointment.

[VonNoble]

16 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

I have no key to controlling an emotional response beyond working to discipline one's self. Like all disciplines, it is not easy from what I have observed by my behavior and that of others.

 

Perhaps "control" was not quite accurate.   

All of us assess our progress (usually at the end of the day) and often focus on the on thing we got wrong rather than the 100 we got right.   In trying to keep emotions and assessments balanced (and celebrate your worth not just what you need to course correct) do you have method to redirect your thoughts.   

 

In visiting with others I often hear what I presume is either frustration (not too patient with the process for many) or else guilt.   So often it seems people feel guilty so much of the time (or that is what I hear) - do you find that as well?

 

von

[VonNoble]

15 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I think the Buddhist understanding is that through desire we suffer.  The cause of our suffering in interactions with others most often arises out of unsatisfied desires of the outcome of those desires.  In other words, we build anticipation, and thus disappointment.

 

Well said.  And I agree.   At least i can intellectually "get" that. 

 

Do you think we have difficulty seeing it is "us" most of the time?

Lots of folks are really quick to point fingers elsewhere instead of inward, maybe?

 

von

[Brother Kaman]

53 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 

Perhaps "control" was not quite accurate.   

All of us assess our progress (usually at the end of the day) and often focus on the on thing we got wrong rather than the 100 we got right.   In trying to keep emotions and assessments balanced (and celebrate your worth not just what you need to course correct) do you have method to redirect your thoughts.   

 

In visiting with others I often hear what I presume is either frustration (not too patient with the process for many) or else guilt.   So often it seems people feel guilty so much of the time (or that is what I hear) - do you find that as well?

 

von

I am sorry, I don't understand your question. Are you asking if I get emotional (guilty) when I have difficulty keeping other emotions balanced?

[VonNoble]

19 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

I am sorry, I don't understand your question. Are you asking if I get emotional (guilty) when I have difficulty keeping other emotions balanced?

Yes thx

[cuchulain]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

 

Well said.  And I agree.   At least i can intellectually "get" that. 

 

Do you think we have difficulty seeing it is "us" most of the time?

Lots of folks are really quick to point fingers elsewhere instead of inward, maybe?

 

von

i think a lot of people are programmed to think they are the center of the world and consequently have trouble realizing that just because they have a gut reaction to something doesn't mean it's a correct reaction.  in school I was often told that during tests the initial thought about the answer was usually correct.  i think they are right about tests but wrong emotionally speaking, yet that type of programming hangs around.

[Brother Kaman]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

Yes thx

I do not choose to feel guilty. That is one emotional response I have managed to completely control.

[VonNoble]

Just now, Brother Kaman said:

I do not choose to feel guilty. That is one emotional response I have managed to completely control.

Thank you.  When speaking with the couple of Buddhist friends I have (neither from the United States) they note that for whatever reasons, Americans have guilt issues much if the time.  

 

To to make matters worse it invades their centering because the quit time quickly becomes self recrimination.

 

That made me curious if you had familiarity with that phenomenon.    Since you indicate you no longer do, congratulations are in order there as it was explained to be that is a leap forward.

 

i am stumbling forward and find it helps to know others sort of advance when they stay with it 

 

intellectualky i I know this is so...but emotionally some days it is less clear

 

thx again

von

[AmberLF]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:41 AM, VonNoble said:

Thank you.  When speaking with the couple of Buddhist friends I have (neither from the United States) they note that for whatever reasons, Americans have guilt issues much if the time.  

I don't know about this part.... As an American I see guilt complexes pretty strong in some people but the vast majority these days don't seem to have that anymore. Some silly sense of entitlement seems to have washed it out for a fair number of us over here. People tend to just do or take or be without worry or care of consequences to those around them these days. 

 

I do know for the longest time there was a fairly wide spread idea that as citizens, guilt or shame for not fitting in seemed to be a big deal. You had to do, say, think, be just so in order to be included in anything and if you fall short just a little... how dare you be even a little different. Shame... shame.

 

That part at least seems to have changed for the most part until very recently. Political unrest on the rise and unusually high levels of anger and depression seem to be mixing the pot again.

[VonNoble]

4 hours ago, AmberLF said:

I don't know about this part.... As an American I see guilt complexes pretty strong in some people but the vast majority these days don't seem to have that anymore. 

You may be right... returning to school has taught me daily I am from a different time and place.     Yet, I think the drug epidemic points to a largely discontented bunch of citizens.   My Buddhist friends ( much younger than I am) point to guilt and low self esteem.

 

my friends were more inclined to drink firvan escape and I most often heard guilt as a major player (again from the senior citizen crowd).... NOW I just leave and don't listen.

 

....thx for your input and welcome to the FORUM.

von

[VonNoble]

4 hours ago, AmberLF said:

Some silly sense of entitlement seems to have washed it out for a fair number of us over here. People tend to just do or take or be without worry or care of consequences to those around them these days.

Do you attribute that change to anything in particular? 

von

[Sergio]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:41 PM, VonNoble said:

Muchas personas han configurado la visión del mundo para cada uno de nosotros. Algunos argumentarían que cada contacto ha agregado al menos una gota.

 

Un maestro budista lo explicó con imágenes mucho mejores, esencialmente cada uno de nosotros flota solo ... en una balsa. Podemos atar nuestra balsa a otros por un tiempo ... pero ninguna otra persona puede hacernos felices en este viaje. Por el contrario, ninguna otra persona puede hacernos sentir tristes tampoco.    

 

¿Fue correcto el maestro budista?

Si es así, ¿otra persona no es la fuente de la ira en ninguno de nosotros?

von

Es cierto que somos seres autónomos y somos los únicos que podemos hacernos felices o no. Pero no hay que olvidar que no estamos solos en el mundo y por lo tanto los actos y en ocasiones la sola presencia  de otras personas influye en nuestras vidas.

It is true that we are autonomous beings and we are the only ones that can make us happy or not. But we must not forget that we are not alone in the world and therefore acts and sometimes the mere presence of other people influences our lives.