Understanding Islam - Worth The Effort

[VonNoble]

In spite of having a couple of friends in college who were Muslims I really did not understand much

beyond the big rituals that are covered frequently in the media.

In the last year some salient bits of information have allowed me to understand (not necessarily agree with...but

understand) some of the dedicated responses I see from Muslims in discussing their faith and their rituals (and

also their refusal to discuss these things)...

If there are any practicing Muslims reading this - I would ask for your assistance if I confuse or misrepresent any

of the core beliefs.

In reading through some World Religion texts it seems one of the core issues at hand for Muslims is the fact that they can trace their lineage (as a faith) back to Adam and Eve? That Mecca holds a bit of the original altar used by Abraham? If these two things ARE IN FACT core beliefs; certainly those who are conservative believers would believe that the later arriving religions were splintering groups who have lost their way, no?

Additionally, the VERY early days of Islam were not exclusively monotheistic however the Prophet Mohammed united all splinter and fringe groups into one cohesive unit that has since that time been very much monotheistic.

Lastly, the amount of commitment required of a Muslim to practice his or her faith is considerably more demanding than most Western religions. Not only commitments of money and tithes but also large (and largely anonymous) donations to charities and charitable works.

IF I GOT ANY PART OF THAT WRONG (this is new to me) - please jump in and give me an assist.

If I got all of it right (I'll be happy I did that fairly) - I am also impressed that those who truly practice the faith are people who would be admirable in their behavior and social interactions by any other devout person of faith.

Thx in advance for any assistance offered.

Von

[panpareil]

In spite of having a couple of friends in college who were Muslims I really did not understand much

beyond the big rituals that are covered frequently in the media.

In the last year some salient bits of information have allowed me to understand (not necessarily agree with...but

understand) some of the dedicated responses I see from Muslims in discussing their faith and their rituals (and

also their refusal to discuss these things)...

If there are any practicing Muslims reading this - I would ask for your assistance if I confuse or misrepresent any

of the core beliefs.

In reading through some World Religion texts it seems one of the core issues at hand for Muslims is the fact that they can trace their lineage (as a faith) back to Adam and Eve? That Mecca holds a bit of the original altar used by Abraham? If these two things ARE IN FACT core beliefs; certainly those who are conservative believers would believe that the later arriving religions were splintering groups who have lost their way, no?

Additionally, the VERY early days of Islam were not exclusively monotheistic however the Prophet Mohammed united all splinter and fringe groups into one cohesive unit that has since that time been very much monotheistic.

Lastly, the amount of commitment required of a Muslim to practice his or her faith is considerably more demanding than most Western religions. Not only commitments of money and tithes but also large (and largely anonymous) donations to charities and charitable works.

IF I GOT ANY PART OF THAT WRONG (this is new to me) - please jump in and give me an assist.

If I got all of it right (I'll be happy I did that fairly) - I am also impressed that those who truly practice the faith are people who would be admirable in their behavior and social interactions by any other devout person of faith.

Thx in advance for any assistance offered.

Von

I have to disagree with one thing. Islam was always monotheistic. Arabs were not. Every tribe had its own god before Mohammed united them.

But I do agree about the demands of the faith though. It is very hard to be a good Muslim.

Islam can best be understood as deriving from an early form of Christianity from a time before the deification of Jesus, closer to Judaism and Mosaic law.

Think of the Essenes and the Ebionites. When Jerusalem fell, the remnants of these groups were dispersed into the Arabian peninsula, where they survived to become an influence on the formation of Islam.

[VonNoble]

I have to disagree with one thing. Islam was always monotheistic. Arabs were not. Every tribe had its own god before Mohammed united them.

But I do agree about the demands of the faith though. It is very hard to be a good Muslim.

Islam can best be understood as deriving from an early form of Christianity from a time before the deification of Jesus, closer to Judaism and Mosaic law.

Think of the Essenes and the Ebionites. When Jerusalem fell, the remnants of these groups were dispersed into the Arabian peninsula, where they survived to become an influence on the formation of Islam.

panpareil,

Thanks for the clarification....after reading your posting I went back and read that section of the reference materials again.

Your wording is more clear (regarding the different tribes each having their one God) (singular) - so I appreciate that clarification.

I had that confused.

Your additional reference information started me digging a bit more into the historic aspects so your input is (again) most welcome and informative.

Von

[revtimothybland]

Most Muslims are very peaceful, and wouldn't harm anyone. However, a few bad eggs have left a sour taste in the rest of the world's mouth about them and their religion. What few realize is that Christians, during the Crusades, were responsible for just as many atrocities as some Muslims are today, but not all Christians are bad, so why would we lump all Muslims in with terrorists?

Lack of understanding. Just as Von said.

[scottedward]

Most Muslims are very peaceful, and wouldn't harm anyone. However, a few bad eggs have left a sour taste in the rest of the world's mouth about them and their religion. What few realize is that Christians, during the Crusades, were responsible for just as many atrocities as some Muslims are today, but not all Christians are bad, so why would we lump all Muslims in with terrorists?

Lack of understanding. Just as Von said.

panpareil,

Thanks for the clarification....after reading your posting I went back and read that section of the reference materials again.

Your wording is more clear (regarding the different tribes each having their one God) (singular) - so I appreciate that clarification.

I had that confused.

Your additional reference information started me digging a bit more into the historic aspects so your input is (again) most welcome and informative.

Von

Most Muslims are very peaceful, and wouldn't harm anyone. However, a few bad eggs have left a sour taste in the rest of the world's mouth about them and their religion. What few realize is that Christians, during the Crusades, were responsible for just as many atrocities as some Muslims are today, but not all Christians are bad, so why would we lump all Muslims in with terrorists?

Lack of understanding. Just as Von said.

I agree with both of you on several of these points. I remember once explaining to the forum that despite how some of the fundamental 'bad apples' have conducted themselves, I've always held a deep affection for how Muslims throughout the world practice their faith. There is a set structure and established discipline in this practice that I envy. My only problem with the Islamic faith is almost the same problem that I have with Christianity, and it wouldn't be the actual religions in question. It would only be the bad apples we've already mentioned, because they're a part of every religion. I'm speaking of humanity, because man has almost always managed to either destroy, or simply taint what we've origionally created to help strengthen our Hope.

[Youch]

Most Muslims are very peaceful, and wouldn't harm anyone.

Your assertion that Muslims distance themselves from their religious and cultural heritage is absurd on the face, and even more so with greater analysis. In case that was not clear, virtually none in the Muslim community has denounced any of their global terrorism. Tacit approval is the same as approval.

Shame on you...

[kokigami]

Your assertion that Muslims distance themselves from their religious and cultural heritage is absurd on the face, and even more so with greater analysis. In case that was not clear, virtually none in the Muslim community has denounced any of their global terrorism. Tacit approval is the same as approval.

Shame on you...

that wasn't his assertion..

[scottedward]

Your assertion that Muslims distance themselves from their religious and cultural heritage is absurd on the face, and even more so with greater analysis. In case that was not clear, virtually none in the Muslim community has denounced any of their global terrorism. Tacit approval is the same as approval.

Shame on you...

that wasn't his assertion..

No.

I don't think it was, either.

[revtimothybland]

No, it wasn't, and the Muslims I know personally who live in my home town HAVE DENOUNCED WHAT TERRORISTS DO IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.

Shame on you, Youch, for making an assumption about me that no one else made.

Edited June 14, 2014 by revtimothybland

[Pete]

I have little problem with moderate Muslims and I agree they do denouce those who terrorise. Yet, I guess I find Islam difficult in the same way as I do many of those in fundamental Christianity. There is this book. It is asserted it is the very word of God and it is without flaws. Everyone should therefore follow it without question. Its this acceptance of that assertion on face value and not asking questions and not coming to my own conclusions bit I usually struggle with such faiths.

That said on the issue of terrorism, as one female Islamic comedian said "why do people judge Muslims by al Qaeda when they do not like Christians being judged by the KKK". I think she has a point.

[scottedward]

I have little problem with moderate Muslims and I agree they do denouce those who terrorise. Yet, I guess I find Islam difficult in the same way as I do many of those in fundamental Christianity. There is this book. It is asserted it is the very word of God and it is without flaws. Everyone should therefore follow it without question. Its this acceptance of that assertion on face value and not asking questions and not coming to my own conclusions bit I usually struggle with such faiths.

That said on the issue of terrorism, as one female Islamic comedian said "why do people judge Muslims by al Qaeda when they do not like Christians being judged by the KKK". I think she has a point.

Pete, this is part of what I've been suggesting lately. Again, I wish to apologize if this offends anybody.

It wouldn't be the religions that any of us should have a problem with. I believe that most if not all religions began with the best of intentions.

It's only the fundamentally rigid and intolerant way that some choose to interpret religious teachings, that often cause the social problems we suffer in today's world. These are those who instruct (they instruct or demand but never just suggest) other followers to accept written works as though it was The Word of God. These are the instigators of debate or disgust. They're the ones who perpetuate intolerance, anger, or hate, while--at the same time--quoting passages that speak to us about compassion and love.

[Pete]

Pete, this is part of what I've been suggesting lately. Again, I wish to apologize if this offends anybody.

It wouldn't be the religions that any of us should have a problem with. I believe that most if not all religions began with the best of intentions.

It's only the fundamentally rigid and intolerant way that some choose to interpret religious teachings, that often cause the social problems we suffer in today's world. These are those who instruct (they instruct or demand but never just suggest) other followers to accept written works as though it was The Word of God. These are the instigators of debate or disgust. They're the ones who perpetuate intolerance, anger, or hate, while--at the same time--quoting passages that speak to us about compassion and love.

I agree

[scottedward]

I agree

That's because you're a reasonable man, which is why I agree with you as well. You've spoken out on more than a few occasions. While it's true that I've kept out of it for a while, many of your doubts, statements, or thoughts have mirrored my own.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I have little problem with moderate Muslims and I agree they do denouce those who terrorise. Yet, I guess I find Islam difficult in the same way as I do many of those in fundamental Christianity. There is this book. It is asserted it is the very word of God and it is without flaws. Everyone should therefore follow it without question. Its this acceptance of that assertion on face value and not asking questions and not coming to my own conclusions bit I usually struggle with such faiths.

That said on the issue of terrorism, as one female Islamic comedian said "why do people judge Muslims by al Qaeda when they do not like Christians being judged by the KKK". I think she has a point.

She does, and it's a good point.

[revtimothybland]

I agree as well, Pete, Scott.

[Youch]

Most Muslims are very peaceful, and wouldn't harm anyone. However, a few bad eggs have left a sour taste in the rest of the world's mouth about them and their religion. What few realize is that Christians, during the Crusades, were responsible for just as many atrocities as some Muslims are today, but not all Christians are bad, so why would we lump all Muslims in with terrorists?

Lack of understanding. Just as Von said.

Your assertion that Muslims distance themselves from their religious and cultural heritage is absurd on the face, and even more so with greater analysis. In case that was not clear, virtually none in the Muslim community has denounced any of their global terrorism. Tacit approval is the same as approval.

Shame on you...

No, it wasn't, and the Muslims I know personally who live in my home town HAVE DENOUNCED WHAT TERRORISTS DO IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.

Shame on you, Youch, for making an assumption about me that no one else made.

Oh, get over yourself!!!

There is no lack of understanding. The community is speaking louder and louder. Sure, many westernized Muslims have seen the light, but as a percentage, that's miniscule.

The point is that most Muslims are not, in fact, distancing themselves from the jihad. Tacit approval is what it is. Same as the raping of the U.S. taxpayer....tacit approval is what it is. Evolution? Nope.....operations totally outside nature.

[kokigami]

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brmiddleeastnafricara/591.php

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Oh, get over yourself!!!

There is no lack of understanding. The community is speaking louder and louder. Sure, many westernized Muslims have seen the light, but as a percentage, that's miniscule.

The point is that most Muslims are not, in fact, distancing themselves from the jihad. Tacit approval is what it is. Same as the raping of the U.S. taxpayer....tacit approval is what it is. Evolution? Nope.....operations totally outside nature.

I'm not real clear on how Muslims are supposed to register disapproval of terrorism. There is no central authority. Neither are the Non-Muslim countries in the business of registering objections. Registering objections with an Islamist-Fascist State wouldn't be very smart.

[scottedward]

I'm not real clear on how Muslims are supposed to register disapproval of terrorism. There is no central authority. Neither are the Non-Muslim countries in the business of registering objections. Registering objections with an Islamist-Fascist State wouldn't be very smart.

Exactly!

I suppose they're supposed to throw themselves from the proverbial cliff to prove to the rest of us how gentle or virtuous they are?

[Youch]

I'm not real clear on how Muslims are supposed to register disapproval of terrorism. There is no central authority. Neither are the Non-Muslim countries in the business of registering objections. Registering objections with an Islamist-Fascist State wouldn't be very smart.

Okay, lets say you are correct. Muslims cannot poltik their way out of self destruction and global chaos. So, are you saying their religious bedrock is preventing "diasapproval" of the actions of the same?

Hint, they would show their disapproval by showing disapproval. We see virtually none. Thus, no disapproval. For the sake of argument, the muslim community here and elsewhere have shown NO DISAPPROVAL OR DISSENT. Of course not......

Is it clearer now?

Exactly!

I suppose they're supposed to throw themselves from the proverbial cliff to prove to the rest of us how gentle or virtuous they are?

You mean like Saipan? Naw, I doubt it....

So, since the subjects of Sharia Law are incapacitated to respond, then