Fred Phelps Has Died.

[grateful]

revjackp, you are an inspiration. I always felt better viewing footage when you guys showed up thank you for you service, and thank you for the way you honor your fallen comrades

[Cornelius]

I think perhaps the greatest thing to come about as a result of his death is the opportunity for so many people to pretend to be morally superior, even though they talked a mean game when he was alive.

Personally I haven't lost a wink of sleep and maybe even gotten some better sleep since.

[Pete]

The first time I ever heard from Westboro was when I came across a forum that was set up for its members. The topic of the conversation was about not giving any sympathy or respect to those who are ill. They were saying that if they were ill then it was God's judgement and therefore they deserved to be ill and people should let them suffer. They talked about how disgusted they were that people cared for disabled people and how they should be left to suffer. Being a Nurse who has seen much suffering and also someone with a physical handicap I guess I could not believe what I was reading. Then when I read about the actions they were taking at funerals I just felt that they were a noxious group of people.

Sure given the amount of child abuse that has occurred in some churches I would not say they were the worst in the world but the difference was for me is that this church 100% endorsed the actions they were taking.

[Youch]

Fred Phelps?

Brother of Jim, or father of Michael?

Edited April 2, 2014 by Youch

[Pete]

Fred Phelps?

Brother of Jim, or father of Michael?

I guess you have a point Youch. Fred Phelps?

[panpareil]

The first time I ever heard from Westboro was when I came across a forum that was set up for its members. The topic of the conversation was about not giving any sympathy or respect to those who are ill. They were saying that if they were ill then it was God's judgement and therefore they deserved to be ill and people should let them suffer. They talked about how disgusted they were that people cared for disabled people and how they should be left to suffer.

That would also mean that every hand that strikes them is the hand of God, since they seem to see him as the source of all evil and suffering.

[Pete]

A point I understand well my friend. However, try convincing fanatics that harm God is being blamed for is God doing evil. It gets into a very circular argument where they only see God as just no matter how obnoxious (IMO) the deed.

[Atwater Vitki]

This is a position not well accepted by those who claim to have "God" on their side in the zealot sort of way. When it's brought up to family members how their actions are just as despicable as those they denounce...i.e; being mean spirited towards others, controlling their children to obnoxious ends of the Earth, daddy has to have a $600 Smart-Phone for "work" but kids are not allowed TV beyond 1 hour of Christian broadcast per day or cell phones at all because of the "devil's work"...just a very short list of recent incidents...."God" has either instructed them in "vision" or dreams or is on their side because of verse XYZ of whatever Chapter they come up with.

It's all just lunacy to me.

When any religious zealot can be shown first hand that what they are doing is just as bad, or worse, than those they condemn yet they aggressively continue to defend their actions it really is time to look at the person not the religion. I know how I was "saved" from the insanity of mySelf by giving up drugs and the biker lifestyle some 30 years ago....I could justify hurting others because of the "biker code" or play the "I don't remember" card because of drug use...but to say anyone or anything other than my own Self was to blame....ridiculous.

I haven't really bothered looking into it (because it really doesn't matter to me personally) but a member on another forum I frequent said that Westboro had taken out protection orders the day Phelps died to prevent people from picketing the undisclosed funeral...gee were they paranoid about something? The good news is that the whole Westboro thing is quickly sinking into the sunset of fanatical lunacy of cults gone wild and will soon be little more than a Wiki-pedia footnote to the late 20^th and early 21^st century.

Blessings of Peace,

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Part of the problem is that they are so hard to love, or like, or respect -- on any level. The best I can manage is indifference. That will have to be enough.

[Pete]

We have JW's in my family. When they say that people do not like them they always quote John 15:18 rather than look at any other reasons people may find it difficult to get along with them.

John 15:18 - “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

They often say that they are on the right path because Jesus said the world would hate them. I usually reply that according to that logic Adolf Hitler must be more on that path as he was hated more than them.

It was usually met with silence or a tut!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Pete

[Youch]

Fred Phelps?

Brother of Jim, or father of Michael?

I guess you have a point Youch. Fred Phelps?

The only Phelps' I've ever known were Jim Phelps (Mission Impossible) and Michael Phelps, that aquatic phenom. I had only ever read a rare reference to a Fred, and don't recall ever knowing who or what he was until reading this thread. But I assume he was roughly the age of one, and old enough to be the father of the other. Forgive my attempt at sub-reference humor...... May he RIP!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Youch

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

The first time I ever heard from Westboro was when I came across a forum that was set up for its members. The topic of the conversation was about not giving any sympathy or respect to those who are ill. They were saying that if they were ill then it was God's judgement and therefore they deserved to be ill and people should let them suffer. They talked about how disgusted they were that people cared for disabled people and how they should be left to suffer. Being a Nurse who has seen much suffering and also someone with a physical handicap I guess I could not believe what I was reading. Then when I read about the actions they were taking at funerals I just felt that they were a noxious group of people.

Sure given the amount of child abuse that has occurred in some churches I would not say they were the worst in the world but the difference was for me is that this church 100% endorsed the actions they were taking.

If they had actually picked up a Bible and read Job; they could never say such things. On top of everything else, this level of Bible ignorance is shocking.

[Pete]

If they had actually picked up a Bible and read Job; they could never say such things. On top of everything else, this level of Bible ignorance is shocking.

I remember watching a documentary on Westboro. It showed that the bible meant not so much as the word of Fred Phelps and how he saw things. He said it and therefore it must be true mentality. Hence, the reason they have not changed or listened when so many Christians (both liberal and Conservative) and others have tried using the bible or persuasion to get them to change their mind on many of the things they say and do.

Trouble is (IMO) the bible can be read with loving eyes or eyes of hurt, hell and damnation. I personally believe much reflects on the person reading the bible and what they choose to put emphasis on and what they choose to ignore.

i.e. Love, mercy, and forgiveness and not judging people or damn these and damn those to eternal suffering. People will choose but I cannot see how a person can say they love and then say with relish that people are going to burn in hell. That people can say that God is love and then say he will make people suffer for eternity with no reprieve. That people can talk of love and then turn up at someone's funeral when their relatives and friends are in absolute pain and sorrow and grieving then shout they have gone to hell and will suffer for ever. The contrast for me is difficult for me to see as one of the same.

For me the bible can be read in so many ways.

Russell Brand:-

Edited April 5, 2014 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

A small hateful mind will project itself into a small hateful God. So they have. Mean spirited and cruel.

I'm sure these people have done more to advance Atheism, than the American Atheist Society. In much the same way, I expect that they have advanced the cause of gay marriage.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

I agree Jonathan.

It is the reason I find it hard to say to people at times that I am inspired by some of the teachings of Jesus in case I am being thought of in the same light as some of what I call extremists.

I was informed just today by a group of people handing out leaflets in the street that they are trying to help me be saved from the eternal fire of hell but no one mentions the fact that it is only Christianity and Islam that believe in a hell and as I understand it the Christian church invented hell.

How loving is that?

I try and avoid some in the street. It is not that I think they have won any arguement but more I just do not want to be in talks with them because I know how angry they become when I challenge what they say and in my opinion how pointless it becomes when it becomes that the other person believes they have the only voice worth listening too.

I am often happier in the company of atheists even if I am not one.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Pete

[emalpaiz]

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa (1836-1886) used to say that most people believe that only their watch gives the right time. That is the problem of many radical religionists.

Hermano Luis

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I agree Jonathan.

It is the reason I find it hard to say to people at times that I am inspired by some of the teachings of Jesus in case I am being thought of in the same light as some of what I call extremists.

I was informed just today by a group of people handing out leaflets in the street that they are trying to help me be saved from the eternal fire of hell but no one mentions the fact that it is only Christianity and Islam that believe in a hell and as I understand it the Christian church invented hell.

How loving is that?

I try and avoid some in the street. It is not that I think they have won any arguement but more I just do not want to be in talks with them because I know how angry they become when I challenge what they say and in my opinion how pointless it becomes when it becomes that the other person believes they have the only voice worth listening too.

I am often happier in the company of atheists even if I am not one.

To my perspective, the doctrine of Hell is the original terrorism. How appropriate it would be if the Christers and Islamists were to end up in each other's Hells. After all, both Hells are for unbelievers.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Pete]

To my perspective, the doctrine of Hell is the original terrorism. How appropriate it would be if the Christers and Islamists were to end up in each other's Hells. After all, both Hells are for unbelievers.

Like Spong put it:-

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Yes. Control through fear.

[Pete]

It keeps ringing in my mind. I read one blog that felt that teaching children about hell is child abuse. The more I think about it the more I feel that way too.