Welfare

[Youch]

Welfare is a good deed... Also consider that welfare didn't start until the 1930's, so good deeds were all we had for the previous 5916 years. At the start of 1930, our national debt was only $22 billion, and after just 84 years of welfare, our debt is $17 trillion and climbing.

right, and that is why we now have welfare. We tried the kindness of strangers thing long enough to know it doesn't work.

There you have it folks, a root of the progressive movement's early justification for socialism. The erosion began in earnest with Woodrow, kicked into high gear with Franklin, went into overdrive with Lyndon, and turbo-charged under Barrack! And now echoed by you. Trust not the people, but instead in a central government. You admit, right here, that people cannot decide what is best, and that their aggregate decisions are not best, and that "we tried" the more natural way and it simply "didn't work." Didn't work?? How arbitrary!! How un-definitive! How untrue! What a bunch of dangerous malarkey. Look, what ended up happening is that the administrative branch and career politicians (self-serving, all) created a multi-level monolith, a leviathan, paid for by making promises to take care of some, while requiring others (those on the wrong side of envy or intolerance) to pay the bill with confiscatory tax mandates. This leviathan, ruling over us with increasing boldness, and also those who benefit from it (recipients of favoritism and freebies), require increasing amounts of funds to support it. The Leviathan borrows to continue to buy votes, and prints more money to continue buying votes, and also finds more myriad ways to confiscate private property to buy votes (and fund a larger and more powerful Leviathan, hehehehe).

Fools.

So many mock the conservatives for trying to stem the tide, and so many champion the liberal cause that make matters worse, and utterly unsustainable. History proves this. In some respects, we live in an upside-down world.

One of the things that makes me sad is when I turn down the many charitable opportunities that confront me throughout my week. I give to one, but to no others, and to all those others I say "hey, vote to reduce my tax burden and I'll return to being a volunteer charitable guy!" Note the pattern in our recent history....as the burdens of government increase (meaning, more and more people on the dole), the less people give to charity. It is the natural reaction.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Youch

[kokigami]

If it had worked, it would not have been supplanted by another system. That is why the internal combustion engine has not lost its dominance yet. evolution isn't just a biological event. It is social and political.

I think you tell a lot with your terminology above. You don't say charitable opportunities that present themselves, but "confront me". You really don't approve of charitable requests. Taxes are just your excuse.

[Youch]

If it had worked, it would not have been supplanted by another system. That is why the internal combustion engine has not lost its dominance yet. evolution isn't just a biological event. It is social and political.

I think you tell a lot with your terminology above. You don't say charitable opportunities that present themselves, but "confront me". You really don't approve of charitable requests. Taxes are just your excuse.

You speak as easily about the intentions and motives of others as you do when you promote the accolades of the Progressive Movement. Since you cannot do the former with any accuracy, should we assume you cannot affect proper judgment on the latter? Seems to me....

My terminology was well-chosen, and I have no problem with how I spelled it out. Interpretation being what it is....

I am "confronted" with charitable solicitations daily, mostly in both my daily personal and professional mail and email, but also from those who walk through our doors requesting "community partnership" etc., and meetings with individuals seeking support (from desperate vendor to alcoholic pretending to be homeless as he begs for change on your local off-ramp), and in both mainstream and the truthful media.

[revtimothybland]

If you're "confronted with charitable solicitations" then you yourself don't think very highly of them at all, which is what kokigami was trying to say.

However, if you are "presented with charitable opportunities" then you DO think very highly of their needs, which is what you claim you were trying to present.

Interpretation being what it is.....

Our interpretations become even more skewed when you describe someone begging for change as "alcoholic pretending to be homeless." Our homeless population is huge in this country. I work with the homeless all the time, and do you know how many are faking being homeless? None. Some may have a home, are down on their luck, and come in for a meal, but they don't claim to be homeless.

You seem to think, as your posts indicate, that everyone's faking it.

Now, I agree that we as a people need to help each other out, and that SOME people do take advantage of that instead of paying it forward as they should. That means we need welfare reforms.

[kokigami]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html

[Brother Kaman]

Thank you, kokigami, for the link.

[Bro. Hex]

...We tried the kindness of strangers thing long enough to know it doesn't work.

Also, you must admit that welfare wasn't the only change in US policy around that time. International warfare, led to seeking and trying to maintain superpower status, a long and expensive cold war, and some pretty creative neo imperialism certainly helped drain the coffers.

[Assassin]

lordie, I was thinking about what you said initially, that iphones aren't expensive.. not looking for an argument (at all) and I don't mean to put you on the spot

but iphones are expensive. not just the phones but the plans you need to carry. we paid a few hundred dollars each (for three phones) and pay over $150.00 a month for unlimited service. the initial bill/payment was near a thousand dollars, maybe eight hundred. we used upgrades..

so from that perspective, maybe they feel that if someone can afford an iphone, they can afford to assume that much financial responsibility for themselves.

You got bent because I have at&t which in my opinion is the most expensive out of all and my wife walked out with an older Iphone for only 99 cents granted it was just an Iphone 4s but still an Iphone so you can go cheap

[Assassin]

.

To this post I personally went to try to get government assistance I work for the Feds and I make a pretty good amount of money but I was denied. They said I made to much money. Now I am all for making too much money but when you have people in there with Iphone's NEW not out dated ones and 17 kids (the only reason they have that many is for more money) and a brand new vehicle better than mine outside I think they are over qualified for the assistance of the government. In fact it makes me downright mad that being a father of two supporting my children and wife (that is currently in college) and all the bills fall in my lap granted I make good money but I also have a good amount of bills and the assistance wouldn’t have me living paycheck to paycheck. That being said I think that the people who need help need to get a job first then get help from the government and there should be a rule that you only get assistance if you currently work

[lordie]

Grateful no problem sorry I missed your reply

I feel sorry fOr disabled people who can't get any assistance.

I know a few who are deaf.it isn't fair

[grateful]

You got bent because I have at&t which in my opinion is the most expensive out of all and my wife walked out with an older Iphone for only 99 cents granted it was just an Iphone 4s but still an Iphone so you can go cheap

not even a little bit. I have no idea who you are and could care less what kind of phone you have. I was addressing another member, and trying to do so respectfully.

as for the purchase price, duly noted. I have never attempted to purchase an older, outdated device; they may well be available for .99. the cost for service would still appear to be out of range for someone on public assistance.

and I'll ask, since someone undoubtedly will, to your second post, what rationale are you using when asking for assistance again when you make "pretty good money"?

[Assassin]

not even a little bit. I have no idea who you are and could care less what kind of phone you have. I was addressing another member, and trying to do so respectfully.

as for the purchase price, duly noted. I have never attempted to purchase an older, outdated device; they may well be available for .99. the cost for service would still appear to be out of range for someone on public assistance.

and I'll ask, since someone undoubtedly will, to your second post, what rationale are you using when asking for assistance again when you make "pretty good money"?

the post about the phone there was no disrespect at all intended wasnt even calling you out but if your a new client you usually get a pretty nice discount on a new phone but I have yet to come out of pocket over maybe 250-300 and I have the latest phone out 800 is crazy thats all I was trying to say. I do make good money infact my wages are publicly known you can find them on the BOP web site which to me is unfair and an invasion of privacy but back to the post yes I applied because again I have a lot of bills to pay and I am the only one in the home working and supporting my family which a lot of people that are on the assistance do not do all I was saying is the assistance should be equally weighed not by your annual or monthly income but by your current situation and work history. If you have someone that has been on assistance for 1yr because they were laid off thats cool but someone who has been on it more that 2yr and hasnt had a job your pushing it because I know for a fact that there are job openings at fast food restraunts or walmarts around the U.S. so I cant find a job is just a lazy mans excuse. Give the assistance to a man who is going through hard times either just being let go and trying to find another job or to someone who is the only provider and actually needs the help.

the post about the phone there was no disrespect at all intended wasnt even calling you out but if your a new client you usually get a pretty nice discount on a new phone but I have yet to come out of pocket over maybe 250-300 and I have the latest phone out 800 is crazy thats all I was trying to say. I do make good money infact my wages are publicly known you can find them on the BOP web site which to me is unfair and an invasion of privacy but back to the post yes I applied because again I have a lot of bills to pay and I am the only one in the home working and supporting my family which a lot of people that are on the assistance do not do all I was saying is the assistance should be equally weighed not by your annual or monthly income but by your current situation and work history. If you have someone that has been on assistance for 1yr because they were laid off thats cool but someone who has been on it more that 2yr and hasnt had a job your pushing it because I know for a fact that there are job openings at fast food restraunts or walmarts around the U.S. so I cant find a job is just a lazy mans excuse. Give the assistance to a man who is going through hard times either just being let go and trying to find another job or to someone who is the only provider and actually needs the help.

and yes the monthly bill is expensive I think I pay maybe 195.00 but that is with the price of my Ipad added on to the bill as well

[grateful]

gotcha

[Songster]

The system was designed to assist those unable to provide for themselves, not provide for those too LAZY to do so... Assassin, your claim to be able to afford what I consider a LUXERY (Ipads for you and your wife) puts the lie to your lament that you were denied assistance in your hour of need... You don't need more money for you and your family to survive, you need to learn to put the funds you do have to better use.... .

[Kingfisher]

We're spending over $400,000,000,000 (that's billion) a year in taxes to cover the interest on the national debt. Over the next decade the CBO predicts that figure to double. That's 1/7 of federal revenue which doesn't go to improve infrastructure, or provide for defense, or help the poor. That's over a thousand dollars a year from every man, woman and child which goes straight into the pockets of global banksters who are all too eager to loan us even more to pay for the things we can't afford because we're throwing our hard-earned wealth out the window. In a couple years that expense will be more than the entire (federal, state and local) welfare budget, and is on a rapid track to surpass even our enormous military spending. And we're too busy fighting each other, too wrapped up in the partisan drama to pay attention to the vampires who are bleeding us dry. How can we even begin to discuss which direction to sail this ship until we patch the rift that's dragging us all down to Davy Jones' locker? Thank God for freedom of religion, because at this rate the only thing our grandchildren will be able to afford is a prayer.

[revtimothybland]

Songster, I think you're being too hard on Assassin. Some people think I make good money, because I can afford a cable/internet bill, plus a car payment, plus $90 per month for the smart phones my wife and I got through Straight Talk. But the fact is, I barely make above min wage. And most of it goes to company insurance, so I never see a dime of that money because it's taken out of my paychecks. I COULDN'T afford anything if it weren't for the fact that my wife's Social Security/Disability was finally approved, and we have two roommates that are working and put half their repective paychecks toward our bills as well. Could we use a little extra help? Yes. Will we get it? No.

Some may argue that we already get it with my wife's Disability, but they keep trying to screw us over on that front as well, so, no, that's not really help.

We're spending over $400,000,000,000 (that's billion) a year in taxes to cover the interest on the national debt. Over the next decade the CBO predicts that figure to double. That's 1/7 of federal revenue which doesn't go to improve infrastructure, or provide for defense, or help the poor. That's over a thousand dollars a year from every man, woman and child which goes straight into the pockets of global banksters who are all too eager to loan us even more to pay for the things we can't afford because we're throwing our hard-earned wealth out the window. In a couple years that expense will be more than the entire (federal, state and local) welfare budget, and is on a rapid track to surpass even our enormous military spending. And we're too busy fighting each other, too wrapped up in the partisan drama to pay attention to the vampires who are bleeding us dry. How can we even begin to discuss which direction to sail this ship until we patch the rift that's dragging us all down to Davy Jones' locker? Thank God for freedom of religion, because at this rate the only thing our grandchildren will be able to afford is a prayer.

I have a solution to that. Cut Congress's paychecks. They are already some rich mo fo's, they don't need any more dough. Cut those paychecks and apply them DIRECTLY to the National Debt. It'll cover a little more then just the interest on it, and it'll free up that $400 Billion to be put where it needs to be.

But, of course, they won't do that. They're too ensconced int the Temple of the Almighty Dollar.

[Assassin]

The system was designed to assist those unable to provide for themselves, not provide for those too LAZY to do so... Assassin, your claim to be able to afford what I consider a LUXERY (Ipads for you and your wife) puts the lie to your lament that you were denied assistance in your hour of need... You don't need more money for you and your family to survive, you need to learn to put the funds you do have to better use.... .

I understand the system design but its not helping the truely needy its assisting the lazy so what I was trying to say if its the lazy that are getting the assistance then I think everybody should because I am paying their bills when they are just sitting on their butts not trying to help their selfs.

[lordie]

Rev Timothy congrats on your wife getting her disability.

I feel for those who need it to but I have to agree w cutting congress wages. And this outrages spending.

Too much if that in government today

And I c someone got straight talk how do u like it?

Any way I know a few people on disability that are getting tease for it and some on welfare as well

But this system has to change some how. Maybe now we are expressing our thoughts on here maybe just maybe someone will listen

[kokigami]

I understand the system design but its not helping the truely needy its assisting the lazy so what I was trying to say if its the lazy that are getting the assistance then I think everybody should because I am paying their bills when they are just sitting on their butts not trying to help their selfs.

seems a sweeping, and unsupported statement. Though, I suspect some people who get support are lazy, the large majority are working poor..

[revtimothybland]

seems a sweeping, and unsupported statement. Though, I suspect some people who get support are lazy, the large majority are working poor..

Actually, in my experience, it's the opposite. My own aunt is working poor, and CANNOT GET THE HELP SHE NEEDS. When she was a lazy little piece of "black sheep" of my family, she had all the help she wanted. And that's just one example, I can name at least 9 out of every 10 individuals not only in my own home town, but also in other places I've lived, like Panama City, Florida.