RevBogovac

Oh cool! That would be a great one - IMHO - to explore!!! What would you let them hear? And would you play it yourself or from a source?

Yes, on everybody. China has actually proven that. First the data is not that BIG. It's not like they would be storing everything in pictures and video. Simply storing location data, temperature, blood pressure et cetera does not get that big (even on 7 billion people). Further more, China has actually perfected the algorithms that take - for instance - certain body points in the face and "only" store the combination of those points for someones facial recognition (and have implemented that in their surveillance technology and "social rehabilitation" programs). So again, not all that big/new/impossible... And I like your analogy, because although "nobody is in charge", in the mean time there is technology to - again, for instance - induce rain. And we all know of the effects CO (reduction) can have on (even) the whole climate... So, although "nobody is in charge" that doesn't mean people are not manipulating things... does it?

Why don't you think it's a red flag? It's a (very) small step from biometrics (measuring your vitals through your connected devices) to combining them to (already gathered data like) knowing where you are and what you are doing and then deriving insights into your "state of mind" while doing that there... Yes, that (employment, jobs et cetera) is exactly what triggered me into thinking why are our governments more concerned with doing things like the Chinese did (mass social "distancing", and all the fall out that that brings) instead of the way the Taiwanese government did (extensive testing and targeted isolation which actually is more effective and has less fallout)...? Just doesn't make sense...

Although I am also interested in Pete's answer... but while waiting I must confess I find the conflation justifiable; the traditions are intertwined and the methods are similar. But you have a genuine question going on in there (although it also just may be a genuine linguistic error).

That was a nice learning moment for me too... some witches may be pagans, but not all pagans are witches... They did get conflated a lot in the past. This cleared things up a bit for me... especially the "religious" distinction.

Now we seem to be getting on to something? Thought police?

Hmkay... that's a nice and polite conversation starter too... now, let's assume (again, I know) we get over the "polite pleasantries" and get "to the point". Then: We're basically fooked if they're here: for empire building, as missionaries, chefs and/or conservationists (Star Trek IV?)... Where would we want the conversation to go if they were academics (I'll put musicologists in with all the other genuine "-logists" into academia) or tourists...? (From a Buddhist or Taoist thought?)

True... so? What would you say to them (that was the exercise here, wasn't it...)?

Hmkay... I'll leave the USA to you guys... what I do know - from personal experience - is that in the former Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRJ, as Yugoslavia was formally known) and in the "eastern blok" in general control was not absolute. The government(-s) would have wanted so, but it wasn't. It was a flawed system that relied heavily on humans (turning on other humans, with all the nice side-effects that can be expected). Nowadays - however - we have "electronic mass surveillance" which is "managed" by logic/algorithms and is much more effective (in China, for instance). The (future) problem that is coming to reality now is: 1. People all over the world will "embrace" this "electronic mass surveillance" en masse because after the (perceived) threat of terrorism and child pornography we now have "health" to consider. And who can be against measures that are there to keep us healthy, right? 2. After the current "electronic mass surveillance" that can "only" see where you are and what you are doing; the next generation of "electronic mass surveillance" will be able to see how you feel. How? Well simple: because of the screening for health issues we will gladly provide our electronic devices with our biometrics (like heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure). Algorithms can quite simply derive our "mental states' from that. Imagine one day opening the door and the nice men asking you: Why did you get so wound up when watching the last speach of our great leader?" We're not talking about China any more... (but it is still interesting to see that "the west" chose the "Chinese" approach over the - very effective - "Taiwanese" approach... why did they do that?) PS I do think you confused Taiwan with Hong Kong by the way....

Yes, it seems so... even groups are becoming more individualistic...

Yes, it was (interesting). Thank you!

True, it was a silly joke... If "we" (as citizens) were more involved than maybe we would have had better government (like in Taiwan; they are still afraid of the "red danger"... they actually have to do what is in the best interest of their population, hence their VERY appropriate reaction to this current health crisis - and their previous experience with SARS/MERS).

But if we take all the previous assumptions... this would be a logical next step... wouldn't it? In pseudo code the algorithm would look something like this: IF they could even come here, AND even remotely relate to us, AND are not interested in simply taking our resources, THEN they would actually be here to get to know us... ELSE we simply can not know OR we are f#@&ed... Something like that...?

Primary, yes... but by now they're doing much of the same as Europe is doing (Lockdown et cetera). Which I find strange because I actually agree with Trump that we have to be careful not to choose a cure which is worse than the desease (and therefore I like Taiwan's method more). On that note: scientists have engineered a mask that will save millions of lives:

I assumed as much... I was more talking to damnthing... Logic would dictate it would be something of a "cultural" talk. As you have said also: if they were here to take our resources they wouldn't need to be talking... So I'd assume an answer likt: Hi there, I'm here to get to know more about you...

Yes, I know... from a rational point of view they would be so different et cetera... but: So:

Well... yes... but... about that "flattening the curve"; that's a nice "spin" to things, isn't it...? How come "our" (western) governments need to "flatten the curve" by putting our whole society/economy on hold while - for instance - Taiwan succeeds in actually managing the outbreak by extensive testing and targeted quarantine...? Hint: has something to do with "protecting" patents of firms (like: Roche) that are unable to produce enough testing fluids by themselves (and are simply refusing to provide the recipe so others can start producing it)...

Or... they actually help us all by spreading the virus and reaching group immunity faster... what a nice thought of them to sacrifice their numbers to protect us all...

No, you are not (but others in this thread seem to be...). So yes, if it works (and it keeps working under the same circumstances, i.c. the working is "reproducible") it stops being alternative (maybe the reason why homeopathy is still considered alternative medicine).

Hmkay.... we can go with those (and previous) assumptions... so an answer from ET like: "I'm here to have a nice talk" could be expected then...?

Natural selection / Darwin at work...

OK, so we've got both a good beginning... As well as an opening question What now...? What could/would happen next...?

Yes, we agree... the problems start when people mix up the two (homeopathy and naturopathy), which - unfortunately - happens a lot (seemingly even in this topic).

But isn't that basically the same as:

OK, this may get a bit "lost in translation"; but I have no problem whatsoever "resisting" (the use of) homeopathic. I think it's a load of bullocks. There is no scientific proof whatsoever it works (and as you have stated often: if there were scientific proof it would have been called Medicine). The use of natural healing however has been documented and proved in some cases and in those cases it can be very beneficial... but back to resisting homeopathic...