RevBogovac

Let's break this down: - Eve was trapped into doing something, but even putting that aside (and not even mentioning the why "we" shouldn't have the knowledge of that tree) the consequence was that all living things were going to die. That - by itself - is the very definition of unjust (punishing innocent beings for something they didn't do). - The bear mauling was - again - the very definition of unjust; it is called arbitrariness when one time an offence is (severely!) punished while other times the same offence goes unpunished (especially if the so called "just" being is allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful). - The flood is actually unjust on both accounts: what did all the other (innocent!) mammals, reptiles and birds do to be punished and why did the fish get off without (arbitrary!) punishment?!? - I didn't ask any one to kill their own kid for me (neither did the majority of humanity in history); to do so is - again - unjust (Jesus didn't do the offence and also arbitrary as he either did so "willingly" and for the whole of humanity or he was coerced in doing so only for the greater good and praise for his father). But - and also again - have fun threading water for the rest of eternity with that "benevolent" being you call god...

Words are cheap; his (according to your bible, documented) actions speak for themselves (trapping Eve so all living things will die, bear-moaling, flooding, letting his owns son be crucified et cetera)... sounds like you'll be threading water for the rest of eternity... have fun!

Yes, that is obvious. The question was: why?!? Why would you even want to spend eternity with such a bully...?

And there we go with the threats again... one would think that a benevolent god would have found more persuasive means... but no. Anyway, if your god really returns and is such an ego-tripper that he needs my affirmation in advance on blind faith well... he isn’t an all good god then whom I would choose to spend the rest of eternity serving. Not even mentioning his “temper” (which is totally arbitrary too, having bears moal he one and leaving the other be). Have “fun” with him I say! (I’m with cuchulain.)

funny... usually you are the first one to point out the "higher" meaning of bible verses and I always thought those verser were (also) to be taken as an instruction to not only proliferate literally but also to "spread the word"... but OK, whatever suits your belief. Seems a bit selfish to me (knowing the prophesies that are coming and still not trying to save as many of your fellow people as possible... (At least the Jehova's witnesses pretend to care.)

Isn't that the opposite of what your bible commands (in Genesis 1:28 and 9:1)? Bye Dan!

I like the concept of Apatheism; a god that is not able to make himself known, nor is able to intervene is - by definition - irrelevant. Saves us all a lot of useless arguing. Hi Dan!

Hmkay, thanks! That got lost - to me - in translation. But I get it (now)....

I don't get it... what question is being asked...? I hear a "homework" assignment ("does the multiverse exist") but I believe that's intended for the viewer (i.c. me, and I don't consider myself to be the God)... so, sorry, but I really don't get it...

IMHO I feel it is the very essence of this forum (to discuss matters "amongst ourselves" with differing view as to grow in our understanding of those matters)... And yes; welcome to the forum!

Hear, hear! I second that.

Wait? Appeared?!? Now what is it?!? Was he resurrected, or not??? Appeared sounds like some kind of ghostly "appearance" where resurrection - to me - sounds like an empty grave and the formerly dead person walking around, constantly (so being able to be perceived by law-enforcers, journalists, the general public et cetera)...

Not really the case, was it...? By that time, according to scripture, Jesus was more or less "Israel's most wanted" and had been tried and put to death in a very public spectacle. So having him walk around after that execution would have been a bit of a big deal (that reporters, law enforcers and historians definitely would have noticed)...

There's another - very big - difference; I find child abuse (scaring and indoctrinating children with threats of eternal damnation, this topic) a far worse crime than the "average" death threat from one adult to another... too bad still a lot of our "power base" (like teachers, prosecutors and judges) is still under the influence of that indoctrination and doen't act how they should act towards child abuse. Please, don't forget that any good argument also has a third party; the audience (who might actually enjoy and learn something)... Well, you just proved you actually do not understand the theory. Try reading up on the Higgs boson... anyway, that theory has two major point on your (bible's) theory: 1. it's mature enough to admit - a priori - it is "only" a theory. That we humans are still learning and most things we know are only the beginning of knowledge. But that we should continue learning and and build upon previous knowledge. Your theory (and the bible) actually say: you're right. Period. And (the fruits of the tree of) knowledge is actually forbidden (that should be a major givaway). 2. the BBT actually has a beginning of some reproducible evidence... however small (see 1.), however "trivial", it's a beginning of proof... the bible has none (except itself; great argument: I am right, because I say so).

True, you don't understand. It's a good thing "we" haven independent judges - in the "free west" at least - who would still sentence the criminal who is threatening to shoot someone, whether he - at that point -actually owns a gun or not. The threat remains...

And - again - a load of condescending, assumptious load of b#!!(&@-.... There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something. You can actually win a lot of respect by such and admittance. Yes, living things die. Yes, their matter "returns to dust". But; no, we don't know what happens next. (We do know something about energy that never dies). There are some theories going around, but these are the facts. We'll come back to those theories later... But here you go giving the exact example this topic is about: threats of eternal damnation... you just proved Jonathan's point.

Exactly, you don't... but let's take a look at children (for instance). So let's also prohibit any "religious" indoctrination of children too, hmmmm...?

True. And it's nice you have made peace with it. The threats (indoctrination) of damnation by christians continue though...

I agree... I also find it very improbable that "it" (the energy) will be "me"... just "part" of "me"... the eternal part. So does it matter (to you) it will not be "you"...? Only if you let it matter it becomes "damnation"... doesn't it...?

I beg to differ; it depends on how big your ego is (whether you find it important if you "personally" are remembered or your energy is part of a bigger whole)...

Yup, that's exactly what I meant by saying the matter decades but the energy goes on (the law of conservation of energy, remember...). But as memory is stored in the brain as a combination of matter and energy it is probable to assume those memories are gone with the matter. There are some people who believe the "soul/spirit" is a form of energy, but as Johnathan said; there is no evidence of that (or even the existence of something like a "soul")... I choose to believe that we are all connected through that energy (but not conscious). Then the interesting question of whether it even matters arises; that is personal, but I don't see why it should. It's busy enough minding the living. PS regarding the resurrection of the pig brain you might want to "Google" the latest findings (from the top of my head I believe they "stretched" the "post-mortem" period under "normal conditions" [the pigs were slaughtered in a slaughter house and their heads transported to the lab] to 6 hours)...

Well, it's more than that by now... I'd say "probably" (which still is a "maybe", but at the same time can be said for most scientific "facts")... Scientists have "resurrected" a pig brain recently and we might get some clearer answers in the future...

We don't know, but - again - science gives us some pointers; memory is stored by synapses working/firing together. Again matter and energy... The matter decades so science suggests memory will decade with it... To me, it does give me some strange kind of comfort knowing we are all part of that same flow of energy (from energy to energy, nevermind the dust...). But yes, that is a personal consideration. For the rest (re: religion): 100% agreed.

There are a few natural laws however that give us some direction; one of which is the law of conservation of energy... Living things consist of matter and energy. Once they die the matter decades. What happens to their energy...? (The above law sort of goes against oblivion, doesn't it?)

Your reasoning is that of an hostage-taker (hostage-taker-logic) who says: "if you do not do as I say I will do something bad and that bad thing will be on you". So God knows the consequences and although it's Eve and Adam who commit the sin he knowingly puts the caterpillar through hell (pun intended)... yeah, nice god... not. As said before: even if that god were proven to exist, I would still consider him an evil entity not worthy of any form of worship whatsoever.