Atwater Vitki

Forgive my butting into a topic where I have no place, really, to do so, however.... There are Truths on both sides of this issue. One, my dear brother Coolhand, you are correct in your personal evaluation and thoughts about what you read in Spong's book as being, shall we say not in line with scholarly outlooks. Second there are those who will understand every word you put down and those of us who'll need a dictionary. Ya know what, fine, if'ns ya understand it cool, if'ns ya don't, you'll learn something. I think the "point" here is that any one of us could go off in our particular genre's of study and have those who would grasp it all and those who are completely lost. I remember when I first came into this forum I got "picked on" a bit about my spelling and use of Nordic terms and things like, eg; "majik" and "Odhinn" were spelled wrong. Well, it all depends on your source. I had the higher education in that realm and didn't think twice about it, now I know better and either will use more traditional syntax so the majority understand OR explain the differences and sources of my usage of particular terms. Rabbi O could do the same with his knowledge of Jewish history and the Torah, Salem and others, I'm sure could follow with her knowledge of Wicca and others in their particular areas of expertise. Last I noticed, THAT is what this forum was all about...to exchange our individual strengths and knowledge bases at the level we are most comfortable. I've written about dumping my library and keeping it down to a handful of useful texts....for MY interests...and there are others here who are still on the quest for their personal truth and are adding a book a day to their libraries. We have academics, laymen and wanna be's, intelligentsia and the mundane all contributing their personal understanding of things to this forum. Any time any one of us claims to be more than someone else, we are failing the ULC membership, because that, just isn't Right! So in my very humble opinion, we can either spend our time arguing the merits of one book or author over another....OR....we can simply shy away from what doesn't excite our synapses on any given topic or avenue of learning. We don't have to belittle it or smear the author. It might just have value to someone else. We can present what we know in a manner befitting everyone...OR...we can keep the highbrow approach going and be misunderstood by many. We can either be lost in our own vision and value of Self...OR...we can teach so that others may grow. It's all a choice. I would really hate to see happen here what has transpired over the years with my own brother and myself. His opinion is if "anyone is too stupid to keep up with my (his) views, then they are the one's in need of therapy, not me!(him) a direct, copy/paste quote from an e-mail he sent me last year. His arrogance and my lack of academics....in HIS fields of interests....have caused a great chasm between us. Yet for all his "intelligence", he still continues to misquote Nordic history, misuses old Norse terminologies, and has a great misunderstanding of his own heritage. You see he won't be belittled that he's not as smart as me in things Viking, our mutual heritage, nor would he ever allow "little brother" to get over on him. It's "very important" that I quote things of his interest absolute and properly, but when I point out his obvious faux paus, it's "not important, it's the intent one has, you know what I mean?!". So which is it?? I'd hate to see the same thing happen here amongst our little family of good, decent folk who are doing the best they can with what they have to understand each other...... after all, unless I'm very misguided, isn't that what it's all about? Blessings of Peace,

First off Stormson, please forgive my tardiness in reading this post, somehow I missed it. Of course I will add you, your daughter and all concerned to my prayers list. You mentioned your daughter's surgery was August 11, did that happen and what are the results? I'm sure we'll all understand if you're busy with the aftermath of that in the two weeks since... You know, I deleted a paragraph concerning your anger over this situation, but in further consideration, you have every reasonable right to be mad at everyone, everything and even God right now. It is only human to do so. I'll refrain from putting a third thought until we hear how things are going for your daughter, but in the interim know that there is a lot of concern and many prayers going out to all of you. Blessings of Peace and Healing,

Rev. Rainbow, Though I had only a vague recollection of this event, many other actions by sitting Popes have queried my mind since youth. These are graphic examples of why I have held a very large question mark over my simple mind about the "Infallibly" of the Pope. No offense intended at any Catholic, but with such a sorted past and such horrific examples of IN-humanity, how can that statement be held as any kind of Truth? Sure, we have some wonderful examples, such as Pope John Paul II, who I too admire as a great Humanitarian, but barring those type of leaders in the HRC how can infallible apply? Then of course we have the numerous contemporary examples of priests, Bishops and even a Cardinal or two and their dubious activities made public. Naturally many accounts have lead the public to question the validity of charges against some of these men but over all, there are simply too many reports of unscrupulous behavior for me have much faith in this particular version of religious affirmation. Even the Vikings, my arena, were ticked off by the Black Robes and were pushed into the history books as being Berzerkers (Germanic tribesmen associated with/to vikings) and Madmen because of their reaction to being swindled. Many folks are aware that "Vikings" began their spree of wanton pillaging in 793 in the Saxon village/township of Lindesfarn. What not many history books will tell you is it was retribution that caused it all. By the late 8th Century, many of the outlying areas of the Holy Roman Church Empire had been depleted of most of their gold, silver and valuable jewels by "tithing" demands by Rome. Several of the Popes you mentioned in your article above demanded more and more and more from any source available. Of course the largest population could keep up with the papal demands, but not poor areas like Lindesfarn. While pure gold and silver went to Rome, less and less was made available to run the parishes. The Vikings (to go a-vik'ing in those times meant "trading" or "voyaging for trade" - purely a merchant term in old Norse.) Even the term Vicar came from this use, but meant as a merchant of faith rather than goods. It seems a band of vikings, under the leadership of one called Ragnär, a Dane with heavy ties to the Swedes, had been trading with the Black Robes around Lindesfarn for several years. In 792 a last minute, hasty trade (due to being late in season and beating the ice back home) was made for fine Scandinavian linen and ivory goods among various other things like a few maidens from France, for around the equivalent value of 100 kilos of silver and 20 kilos of gold. When Ragnär and his "boys" (five sons - each with their own ship) returned home and melted down the precious metals, it turned out to be mostly led and copper, plated (dipped in) with silver and gold to disguise the clinker metals under the thin coatings. Well, as the saying goes, the rest is history! Undoubtedly there is deceit and mistrust everywhere in the world and we usually subscribe most of it to "bad people". I think the same applies here as it was bad people, not necessarily bad Catholics that caused his 350 year chapter of historic raping and pillaging by my ancestors. I think if anyone was cheated like Ragnär and his band of seafarers were they'd be on a rampage too! It was 1150 CE when the Great Tree, the mighty oak of Nordic belief, their "Mecca" or "Holy Mound" if you will, hung the last 1,500+ confirmed pagan warriors outside Uppsala, Sweden by order of a newly converted Christian king, and was then burned to the ground, leaving only a charred stump which still survives today (been there, sat on it). So much the same as the Holy Roman Church has it periods of unsavory and "would rather forget" history, so do many people of various times and eras. Thanks for a great read, (I'll forgive the hour and half spent on bing and google on "popes" and "Vatican" and "Cardinals" and....!) Välsingelse på fred - Blessings of Peace,

To Everyone, Thanks again for everyone's prayers, thoughts and continued support. I, and my family appreciate it more than one can fully comprehend. My Mother especially was touched to read the posts y'all put out and Sis cracked up on the jokes...THAT was good to see! Mom remembered when ULC began in Modesto and all the hoopla over "that church" starting in 1959. The Pastor of Bethany Covenant in Ripon, CA, Rodney Rosengrin wrote a letter to the Bethany congregation outlining the "sins against God" for what Kirby and Lida Hensley were "doing to the Curch" as a whole. I heard the whole story when I announced I had been ordained here back in '07. But when Mom read the posts I had printed out to share with Sis and her, she actually was put to tears. Isn't it amazing how things change? We attended Larry's funeral yesterday, complete with Honor Guard for his Korea Service and the Pastor of their little church in Houghson, CA Sovereign Grace even announced my nephew, Associate Pastor from Family Radio when he spoke and never said one disparaging word when I got up to speak. Yes, amazing how things have changed. Everything went beautifully and so many people showed up that in itself touched my sister very much. I'm going back up in a couple days to help Sis and Mom so I'll be gone for a few days. Oh, and RevGen....spooky, Isiah 46:2-5 & 7 was read during the service! I was a bit taken back reading it here this a.m.....thank you. Isa 46:2 They stoop, they bow down together; they could not deliver the burden, but themselves are gone into captivity. Isa 46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you. Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? Isa 46:7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth; from his place shall he not remove: yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer, nor save him out of his trouble. And I added to things with one of Larry's favorite verses from KJV :1Co 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. ....and from a letter of the Dane King Ragnar the "Red Beard" in the mid 9th Century CE, to his elder sister concerning their youngest brother's death: And though a great Warrior or simple smith (as was the prince by trade) may journey before the gates to Asgaard, the All Father sees their heart. The Mighty One Eye, who brought us our direction through the language of the staves, knows before the death kneal or the Time Keeper Valüt's call who shall cross Bifrost into Asgaard and even moreso who shall enter Välhalla. Whether delivered by valkyrie or by the Dark One's cold grasp, shall the Äsa Trû, be harken upon to the gilded path towards the ending place of our beliefs for all eternity. (the letter was three pages long but the above seemed to display a side of a Viking King few would think of, which is what I spoke, and for our History lesson today it ended: I know now, had I half the heart of our dear and gentle Harrold, I shant have lived this life of misery and deception that has been frought with such vulgar views. I may be king through the treachery of our father's power and the ability of my blade yet I find my heart empty and my mind awash with the misery of suspicion and the pains of paranoia for what some who fear me, and their consorts, wish upon my head.) Anyway, Kay and I just wanted to say "Thank You! to everyone for your heartfelt, and heart felt on this end, condolences and the many prayers. It warms our Soul to know so many care. On one hand it's sad that so many can identify with grief, but on the other it's comforting to know how its dealt with in so many ways. It is something that we all seem to get through. Many, many prayers and Blessings in return, "RevAl" and Kay

Thank you all so much. My sister sends her "Thank You" as well as she was amazed that so many here were praying for her hubby, a total and complete stranger to everyone here. Once again the ULC Forum group Astonishes and Amazes!! Might I ask for a few days of continued support for Sis as she endures this most uncomfortable period of adjustment? Thanks in advance. The sad news to it all though is that Larry passed away yesterday at noon, ironically as they brought in his lunch. Please don't hold back on hospital food and passing jokes as Larry (72) would have appreciated every one of them! He LOVED my sister, a good joke and baseball, with Sis always being the first. Jokes were subjective depending on 'for or against' his Dodgers! He was a good man, great father and excellent husband. Our entire family appreciated so much his taking such good care of my sis. The funny thing is she dated Larry's brother David during junior/senior years in HS. Larry was the oldest of five boys and in a miserable marriage during Dave and sis' dating, but that ended just before sis and Dave broke up (seems he didn't want to "wait" for marriage - which sis was a stickler for) and when Sis left home at 18, well the timing was perfect and remained so for 46 years! Larry worked for Santa Fe Railroad for almost 40 years as a Brakeman, actually an obsolete job after 1978, but gotta love them Unions! Sis worked off and on, but mostly was a stay at home Mother to two daughters Laurel, Kristin and a son Leigh. Laurel passed away in 1997 from injuries inflicted by an abusive husband, who served only 4 1/2 years for his actions (Courts can be ridiculous) Kristin is the niece I mention from time to time as being the "problem child" of addiction and Leigh, bless his heart has four girls (19, 14, 12, 10) and a son (8) and Leigh can be heard on "Family Radio" every now and then when he fills in for one of the ministers on regular programming. He is one of the programming producers for the station. His wife Christina is a physical therapist and they both home school the kids, with Brittany (oldest -duh!) just being accepted at William and Mary College a few weeks ago. So my wonderful, good heart, loving and caring Sister (66) must now see Life through the different prospective of being a widow. All the adversities she's faced in life have now come to a point of not mattering as much as they once did and her home is empty from the many, many years of loving commitment she shared with a great guy that are now mere memories. A plethora of good memories mixed in with the few, but devastating, sad and heart breaking ones. Again, I ever so much appreciate the fact so many here helped in our family's need of prayer, which I do believe is a valuable and important Spiritual "tool" that binds individual energies into a common "frequency" and does indeed petition "God", "The All Father", "The Source", "the Great One", whomever, whatever "title or label" one wishes to give s/he/it. Blessings Be in Peace,

Thanks to everyone! Larry is still hanging on, but Hospice was called in last night so we expect that call anytime. If I'm gone for a few days, well, let's just hope things turn around and go well. Blessings to All,

Rev. Scott, Media HYPE and SENSATIONALISM is what SELLS news stories of any kind. They got exactly the intended reaction out of you, anger. The old saying goes "any publicity, good or bad, is GOOD and worth the price"!! Right now, anger, hatred and suspicion against our Muslim brothers and sisters is what it is all about. I feel the same as you about "news" like this regardless of my, perhaps different, personal reasons behind it. Stay angry at MEDIA, we all should send a message every chance we get. One day, some impossible dream of a day, I would like to see a NYT or Washington Post HEADLINE of : "Mr. & Mrs. 'Smiths' Golden Retriever "Happy" had puppies today. (Sub-line:=) Anyone interested should call (202)-555-1234" Of course that's the same phone number for the White House in Eraser, but ya get the picture! But seriously though, I'm with ya on being very upset at how this "War" in Iraq/Afghanistan is going that I could personally choke those responsible for what it has cost the world to protect oil interests. Deliberately pitting one religion against another is an age old rationale for war, but this one, with internet, instant and live media coverage and the agendas behind it are disgusting. Pure and simple deliberate manipulation of a created circumstance to place contentions between people that otherwise have little other than respect for each other. Blessings of PEACE,

So very powerful indeed Rev Lynch. Isn't it amazing how the things we think may be of little import to another person have exactly the opposite affect? My Dad, about 6 months before he passed gave me a gift of words. Words that if said years ago could have meant the difference between many years of separation and those years spent in better contact. When he went to hospital several months before his passing, I made him a small collage of family pictures with his favorite Scripture passage (Psalms 91) in the corner. The nurse told me he had this in his hands the moment of his surrendering to go Home. Due to these two incidents, I've made certain that the years don't slip by for my son and I the way they did for us. Now I wait for son to acknowledge his part in this event. Daughter and I have a great relationship and I cherish her quirky little Self in the many things she does. Last year for Father's Day she compiled a slide show of pictures from one's taken the moment of her birth to just days before her Gift to me. That DVD disc is so special and viewed often. Blessings of Peace,

My Brothers and Sisters in Light, Recently, over the past couple of months, several things have hit my Family rather hard and I'd like to request prayers in the direction of those who earnestly need all the support they can get through the Ethers. My Sister, Lynda, has had the worst time dealing with an abusive and drug addicted daughter. My niece has caused such havoc and harm lately as she has been cut off public assistance in June, lost her umteenth place to live in July and is currently running with an abusive, addicted and criminal "man" that also has multiple times threatened physical harm upon my sister and husband Larry. Larry suffered a stroke 11 years ago and has had four more since with the latest one just 12 days ago. During his last stroke, he fell and broke his hip and is now barely hanging on to Life in ICU due many complications. He has also been very verbal about wanting to "go home to the Lord" as he feels so overwhelmed by having been such a burden on sis these many years. As well, at 72 yrs, he's lived a full and productive Life, giving 40+ years to the Santa Fe railroad, for which we've have all been thankful for his duty to family and my sis. My Mother, 86, Evelyn has of course been upset by this however as she is in a diminished capacity her "help" seems more invasive and intruding than "helpful". She has done such things as bring the entourage of LOL's (little ol' ladies) from her church to sister's house and, well...., did more harm than good. She insists on sister bringing her to the hospital "for Larry" every day and then spends the entire time complaining about the "hard chairs", "the bad food" and ...and ...and .... which means sister must devote all her time to Mother rather than her husband. (Yes, I know what I would do!) Sis is the most forgiving and wonderful person, however, by doing so she brings so much "extra" into her Life. She has just yesterday, finally, gotten a restraining order against my niece and boyfriend, but the battle continues as of a few minutes ago on the phone. Anyway, both Mother and Sister live 40 miles north of me in Modesto, CA and with our conditions of not able to do much physically to help, prayer is the most supportive we can do. Might I indulge upon the many Good Souls here to send a prayer their way? I Thank you all so much, Blessings of Peace, Dave "RevAl" K.

Isn't it amazing how a little encouragement takes the discouraged right out of the situation! Good Job Parents! Blessings of Peace, RevAl

Salem, So sorry to hear of your ordeal. I will also put you on my "Prayers for Healing" list and send you a super-thrust of healing energy. As for the pain killers, eh, use what ya need, no faulting for wanting to be out of pain, just taper after off after 2-3 weeks so you don't get "addicted"...that I KNOW from experience it's no fun when they say "you're all better, no more pills!" Reiki is a tried and true method of healing, if you but believe, except it should be in person. Even having "faith believing" friends and/or family gather around your injury and silently "pray" (sending the intention of healing to the Cosmos) does work. It's amazing how affective these "dis-proven" methods are. Having been in casts, on nearly every limb, yes, the hair dryer on 'air only' does work. So does a Benedryl once a day "help". Also a wire coat hanger stretched out straight and put a "U" on one end and wrap with medical tape for a soft scratcher ...MAKE SURE to file smooth the cut end so no cuts! I'm surprised they didn't leave you a couple of holes in cast around the calf area as allows to "air better". My last leg injury, reconstructive surgery on left ankle, the guy in casting put spray can tops at four places around calf and cast around them and then pulled out the can-tops before it dried. I was SOOOOO grateful for the airflow and "itch access"!! They also used a "Teflex" (sp?) -sorta like mini-pad construct- on before the cotton batting. If they give you a new cast in 3-4 weeks ask for this "holes method" and do not shave leg while free from cast as they may suggest! (They did to an old g'f and she cussed them for a week because like you said...the ITCH of regrowth) If they give you the time, a half hour or so without cast will sure feel good! Many prayers and Blessings your way dear lady! Get Well Soon!

Many Blessings to him, may he continue to be fulfilled by the warmth and caring his friends so easily and readily apply to his Being. BTW, I have to ask Salem..... While meditating/praying for Chester the other day, I got an image of a man... late 40's early 50's, sort of an odd, or not common go-tee like facial hair, big, deep eyes, and a smile that seems to be "chiseled" into his face, kind of a large, but not bulbous, nose - thinning hair on top but still there, dark brown a bit of white here and there, collar length maybe a bit longer, and a very unusual large ring on his right hand, middle or ring finger (didn't get a good "look") Oh yeah, and something about a turned or perhaps partially missing tooth- incisor, not front, to the right side . is this even close to what Chester looks like or is this simply my dim witted interpretation of him? Just curious about mental imagery and whether or not it is a reality when doing Works or things like prayer/meditation. I've found, at least from the feed back I've gotten, I'm about 50/50 with being "on the money" and "not even close"... hehehe I am glad to hear he's home and on the mend! Blessings,