Do They Really Believe That?

[RevBogovac]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Dan your playing with words. You do not understand science. Gen 1 is not scientific.  "Matter - The earth"? If the Earth was a pimple on my backside the universe would still be much bigger than our galaxy. It was not about us. Observation tells us so. We are an accident of nature in a universe bigger than our full comprehension. Gen 1 is nuts.

 

It is all just a "concept" that is "too hard to swallow" for Dan. Just imagine little 'ol us not being in the centre of it all!?! 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, RevBogovac said:

 

It is all just a "concept" that is "too hard to swallow" for Dan. Just imagine little 'ol us not being in the centre of it all!?! 

 

 

I agree.  This is Dan's faith in Genesis.  Nothing so trivial as facts, science or external reality, will persuade Dan.  Dan will simply go on insisting, that we are close minded.  Because Faith.  

 

What are the stars?  Little twinkly things, that God pasted on to the Firmament -- to decorate our night sky.  An after thought on the fourth day.  "He made the stars also."  

 

    

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Dan your playing with words. You do not understand science. Gen 1 is not scientific.  "Matter - The earth"? If the Earth was a pimple on my backside the universe would still be much bigger than our galaxy. It was not about us. Observation tells us so. We are an accident of nature in a universe bigger than our full comprehension. Gen 1 is nuts.

 

4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

It is all just a "concept" that is "too hard to swallow" for Dan. Just imagine little 'ol us not being in the centre of it all!?! 

 

3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I agree.  This is Dan's faith in Genesis.  Nothing so trivial as facts, science or external reality, will persuade Dan.  Dan will simply go on insisting, that we are close minded.  Because Faith.  

 

What are the stars?  Little twinkly things, that God pasted on to the Firmament -- to decorate our night sky.  An after thought on the fourth day.  "He made the stars also."  

 

 

 

An atheist is not convinced by anything nonphysical, if they can't perceive of it, they won't accept it. But God is not an intellectual quest, He is not just recognized because we can rationalize His existence. So the reality of nonbelievers ends with miracles, what they can't fathom happening, makes God unreal to them. Ultimately, Atheists have neither evidence nor proof that God does not exist. I personally think that deep down everyone knows that God exists, some have just trusted science and have convinced themselves otherwise.

 

Christians roll the other way, we are convinced God exist and have made a choice of faith. Some are certain, so positive that they would give their life for Christ sake. Others lean towards Christ, but waver, doubts weigh in, kind of like when Peter began to sink when walking on water. Whats the truth, whats a lie? Can you name something Jesus did that was a lie or unrighteous? Christians don't believe God was a liar from the beginning, Atheist do. Faith is just trust, if something is true, its easy to trust.

 

'Nothing so trivial as facts?' My point has been that you have no facts and no definitive answers to how it all began. Your reality is limited to what you can see and test, all else is unknown. Genesis speaks to what people could understand (all ages of time). Stars are seen as lights, their purpose is what's stated (Genesis 1:14). You seem to demand a step by step instructional manual to explain how it was done?

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

Dan once you leave reality the permutations you can believe in are endless. You have no proof your permutation is correct. It is laughable.  I would rather stick with science than fantasy.  At least as far as we can delve there is proof behind it. That is why they built the Hadron collider so they can research theory. What do you have. A bronze age book of unprovable nonsense. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

 

 

 

An atheist is not convinced by anything nonphysical, if they can't perceive of it, they won't accept it. But God is not an intellectual quest, He is not just recognized because we can rationalize His existence. So the reality of nonbelievers ends with miracles, what they can't fathom happening, makes God unreal to them. Ultimately, Atheists have neither evidence nor proof that God does not exist. I personally think that deep down everyone knows that God exists, some have just trusted science and have convinced themselves otherwise.

 

Christians roll the other way, we are convinced God exist and have made a choice of faith. Some are certain, so positive that they would give their life for Christ sake. Others lean towards Christ, but waver, doubts weigh in, kind of like when Peter began to sink when walking on water. Whats the truth, whats a lie? Can you name something Jesus did that was a lie or unrighteous? Christians don't believe God was a liar from the beginning, Atheist do. Faith is just trust, if something is true, its easy to trust.

 

'Nothing so trivial as facts?' My point has been that you have no facts and no definitive answers to how it all began. Your reality is limited to what you can see and test, all else is unknown. Genesis speaks to what people could understand (all ages of time). Stars are seen as lights, their purpose is what's stated (Genesis 1:14). You seem to demand a step by step instructional manual to explain how it was done?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is impossible to reason with you. 

 

I know what stars are.  You seem to be even more reality impaired, than I thought. 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Dan once you leave reality the permutations you can believe in are endless. You have no proof your permutation is correct. It is laughable.  I would rather stick with science than fantasy.  At least as far as we can delve there is proof behind it. That is why they built the Hadron collider so they can research theory. What do you have. A bronze age book of unprovable nonsense. 

 

Well, with all the scientific advancements over thousands of years, what's more telling to me is that nothing in that bronze age book of 'nonsense' can or has been proven false.

 

45 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

It is impossible to reason with you. 

 

I know what stars are.  You seem to be even more reality impaired, than I thought.

 

 

Holding to a position that creationism is false while having no alternative answer for all that exist is not an attempt to reason with anyone. Its saying that; 'I know nothing, but what you've concluded is false'. And you tout it as though you had evidence that creationism is false.. Its impossible to reason with that! Your essentially stating something as fact with no evidence to support it.

 

Its good that you know what stars are, now lets move on to what purpose they serve the earth? Here's a clue; "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" (Genesis 1:14).

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

37 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Well, with all the scientific advancements over thousands of years, what's more telling to me is that nothing in that bronze age book of 'nonsense' can or has been proven false.

 

 

Holding to a position that creationism is false while having no alternative answer for all that exist is not an attempt to reason with anyone. Its saying that; 'I know nothing, but what you've concluded is false'. And you tout it as though you had evidence that creationism is false.. Its impossible to reason with that! Your essentially stating something as fact with no evidence to support it.

 

Its good that you know what stars are, now lets move on to what purpose they serve the earth? Here's a clue; "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" (Genesis 1:14).

 

 

Oh, Dan.  Wake up and smell the chloroform.         

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Oh, Dan.  Wake up and smell the chloroform.         

 

 

These are the type of responses that generally come from someone who's stumped.. No answers, just criticism. But that's okay, I understand that its impossible to prove something that's true to be false.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

These are the type of responses that generally come from someone who's stumped.. No answers, just criticism. But that's okay, I understand that its impossible to prove something that's true to be false.

 

If that's the word you want to use.  Alright then.  "Stumped."     

 

nothing in that bronze age book of 'nonsense' can or has been proven false.

 

Such a silly thing to say -- and so sweeping.  What should I argue about?  The Adam and Eve story?  The Tower of Babel?  Exodus?  The Gospels?  Nothing that I say will matter to you.  I'm done here.

 

And you tout it as though you had evidence that creationism is false.. 

Of course, Creationism is false.  What support does it have, outside of Genesis?  You expect me to argue about it?  With you?  I'm done here.

 

 now lets move on to what purpose they serve the earth? 

You think the rest of the Universe was put here -- to decorate our night sky?  Attached to the "Firmament"?  You cite Genesis as proof.  Which part of this do you expect me to argue about?  I'm done here.

 

I can not think of any reason, to continue to argue with you.  Clearly, it does no good -- and I'm tired of it.  Maybe someone else cares enough, to argue with you.  I'm done here.

 

 

[Pete]

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

If that's the word you want to use.  Alright then.  "Stumped."     

 

nothing in that bronze age book of 'nonsense' can or has been proven false.

 

Such a silly thing to say -- and so sweeping.  What should I argue about?  The Adam and Eve story?  The Tower of Babel?  Exodus?  The Gospels?  Nothing that I say will matter to you.  I'm done here.

 

And you tout it as though you had evidence that creationism is false.. 

Of course, Creationism is false.  What support does it have, outside of Genesis?  You expect me to argue about it?  With you?  I'm done here.

 

 now lets move on to what purpose they serve the earth? 

You think the rest of the Universe was put here -- to decorate our night sky?  Attached to the "Firmament"?  You cite Genesis as proof.  Which part of this do you expect me to argue about?  I'm done here.

 

I can not think of any reason, to continue to argue with you.  Clearly, it does no good -- and I'm tired of it.  Maybe someone else cares enough, to argue with you.  I'm done here.

 

 

Its all an attempt to talk about his religion on a no religion section of the forum. It's pure nonsense. Dan does not see any other view because he does not see what is around him. Evolution is going on still. Even in Man. We have grown taller, live longer and the coccyx bones are the remains of a tail. The appendix in the intestinal tract is what is left over from when we ate tree leaves and grasses, but does not form any more because we have evolved from doing that. Dan is a fundamentalist as such cannot see anything other than his doctrine. He says we cannot disprove the bible but you cannot prove it either. I cannot prove or disprove Robin Hood and Vampires but I know they don't exist and were created by man made fiction. I believe the bible is the same. It bears little logic in todays world with todays knowledge but Dan still is sticking to bronze age thought knowledge. Dan sorry but I find your views nonsense and frankly boring.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

Its all an attempt to talk about his religion on a no religion section of the forum. It's pure nonsense. Dan does not see any other view because he does not see what is around him. Evolution is going on still. Even in Man. We have grown taller, live longer and the coccyx bones are the remains of a tail. The appendix in the intestinal tract is what is left over from when we ate tree leaves and grasses, but does not form any more because we have evolved from doing that. Dan is a fundamentalist as such cannot see anything other than his doctrine. He says we cannot disprove the bible but you cannot prove it either. I cannot prove or disprove Robin Hood and Vampires but I know they don't exist and were created by man made fiction. I believe the bible is the same. It bears little logic in todays world with todays knowledge but Dan still is sticking to bronze age thought knowledge. Dan sorry but I find your views nonsense and frankly boring.

 

 

One of my favorite quotes about the Bible:  "The Bible is equal parts history, science and pizza."

 

I have gotten to the point, where I can't take the Bible seriously, long enough, even to argue about it.  I used to care.  Now I don't.  Dan helped me get there.  Dan was a very small part in my journey, but he helped.

 

 

 

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

One of my favorite quotes about the Bible:  "The Bible is equal parts history, science and pizza."

 

I have gotten to the point, where I can't take the Bible seriously, long enough, even to argue about it.  I used to care.  Now I don't.  Dan helped me get there.  Dan was a very small part in my journey, but he helped.

 

 

 

I have to say if I saw Dan preaching this nonsense in the street I would ignore him. We only talk because it's the forum.  He is the equivalent to understanding science as Baldrick in Black Adder was to genius. He has no concept of what he is talking about. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

I have to say if I saw Dan preaching this nonsense in the street I would ignore him. We only talk because it's the forum.  He is the equivalent to understanding science as Baldrick in Black Adder was to genius. He has no concept of what he is talking about. 

 

 

Dan has taken a toll on this board.  We used to have liberal Christians.  

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Dan has taken a toll on this board.  We used to have liberal Christians.  

Yes I was one of them. Sam and Frank too. His persistence really shows the flaws in Christianity. Well, the bibliocist kind.  

[RevBogovac]

17 hours ago, Dan56 said:

[...] Its good that you know what stars are, now lets move on to what purpose they serve the earth? Here's a clue; "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years" (Genesis 1:14).

 

Yeah, as I said:

 

On 2/2/2020 at 4:40 PM, RevBogovac said:

It is all just a "concept" that is "too hard to swallow" for Dan. Just imagine little 'ol us not being in the centre of it all!?! 

 

And that is just.... 

[RevBogovac]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Dan has taken a toll on this board.  We used to have liberal Christians.  

 

36 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes I was one of them. Sam and Frank too. His persistence really shows the flaws in Christianity. Well, the bibliocist kind.  

 

Yeah, I considered myself a "liberal Christian" when I came onboard of this board. Now, I'm inclining to Apatheist. Fast and hard. Thank you!

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

Yeah, I considered myself a "liberal Christian" when I came on board of this board. Now, I'm inclining to Apatheist. Fast and hard. Thank you!

 

 

There are a lot of Atheists, who say that they are waiting for evidence.  I used to say this also.  What happened?  The same boring old arguments over and over again.  Always, as if for the first time.  First Cause -- the Watchmaker -- Pascal's Wager -- challenges to prove that God does not exist  -- everything from nothing -- How come there are still monkeys?  Crap about the Big Bang.  I wouldn't mind so much, but it's always the same tired old arguments.  The tedium has set in.

 

Look at the crap that comes in, with the Agnostic label.  People assume that the Agnostic cares.  That the Agnostic is searching.

 

Apatheism cuts it all out with -- I don't care. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

A look at modern Creationism.

 

 

[Dan56]

3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

A look at modern Creationism.

 

 

 

That's was a good debate, Kent Hovind clearly humiliated the young professor Dave and articulately explained everything that I've been trying to pound through your heads forever.

The good professor thinks we all came from rocks, but admitted that he's absolutely clueless as to how that first living cell magically came to life.. But it certainly couldn't have been Intelligent Design because you all have concluded that without evidence, creationism is garbage..

[RevBogovac]

7 hours ago, Dan56 said:

[...] admitted that he's absolutely clueless as to how that first living cell magically came to life.. But it certainly couldn't have been Intelligent Design because you all have concluded that without evidence, creationism is garbage..

 

Yes, because he's a scientist and a scientific open mind admits when he does not know and looks further for real answers. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever for a "creator". There is a lot of proof for evolution on the other hand.

 

So, again, if a god/creator has absolutely no presence/consequences in the perceptible/existing world his (so called "proof" of) "existence" becomes totally irrelevant.

 

(And I'm not even going into the fact that you so lightly step over your own sacred book [Genesis in this particular case] where there is no mention of this process, but I'm sure you have a loophole for that one too...)