Converts

[Key]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

Your just unfamiliar with biblical terminology, if you substitute the word 'world' with 'land', you'll recognize the whole world did not go under water, 'erets' is specific to a large area of land/earth directly related to the story being told..

 

Most fundamentalist believe in climate change, we just don't accept all of the scientific propaganda that insinuates people are the cause of it. Longer term history demonstrates radical climate change has always existed. They say that the North Pole is getting warmer, but they fail to mention that Antarctica is simultaneously getting colder.  The North Pole is becoming warmer, the South Pole is becoming colder

They aren't saying we are the sole cause of it, but we are a major contributor to it. And that isn't propaganda. Evidence of this was discovered by big oil's own scientific research and buried for many years until recently uncovered.

Btw, not entirely true about Antarctica. But, sea plankton and other species are dying off there, as well, because of climate change.

[Key]

5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Yes.  I saw it.     

 

Did you see my comment about the flag?    

 

 

Yeah, saw it. Good quip. Maybe one of them would do it, too. 😉

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, mark 45 said:

i did 😋.

 

 

This is what Genesis has to say about the rainbow.  From this, we can see that the rainbow flag would be the perfect symbol, for people who trust in the Bible.  A perfect expression of God's Love and His glorious covenant with Humanity.

 

🌈          🏳️‍🌈         🌈         🏳️‍🌈

 

 

Genesis 9:13

I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

Genesis 9:14

Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

Genesis 9:16

Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

 

 

🏳️‍🌈     🌈     🏳️‍🌈

[Key]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

This is what Genesis has to say about the rainbow.  From this, we can see that the rainbow flag would be the perfect symbol, for people who trust in the Bible.  A perfect expression of God's Love and His glorious covenant with Humanity.

 

🌈          🏳️‍🌈         🌈         🏳️‍🌈

 

 

Genesis 9:13

I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

Genesis 9:14

Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

Genesis 9:16

Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

 

 

🏳️‍🌈     🌈     🏳️‍🌈

Now you got me thinking something I hadn't considered before. If Biblical God is all knowing, and His memory is long, why would He need a reminder for Himself?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 minutes ago, Key said:

Yeah, saw it. Good quip. Maybe one of them would do it, too. 😉

 

 

Anything is possible.  About a year ago, in one of the threads -- Dan said that he was a "Free Thinker".

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 minutes ago, Key said:

Now you got me thinking something I hadn't considered before. If Biblical God is all knowing, and His memory is long, why would He need a reminder for Himself?

 

 

Senility?  We can add forgetfulness to the list of attributes.     

 

 

[Dan56]

7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

You have been clear all along, that your beliefs are more important to you than facts.  It's too late now, to appeal to reality.  Your cherry picking has become tedious.  I'm tired of you making things up as you go along.

 

I've always said and believed that Noah's Flood was regional, so I'm not making things up as I go along. I'm probably the most consistent person here, while you've indulged in many beliefs. My belief is more important because it provides answers where science is silent. You have no facts to confirm where you came from or where your going, so no facts equate to "I don't know and I don't care". And as I've said, a fulfilled prophecy is a subjective fact, but you ignore those type of facts because they interfere with what you prefer to believe.

 

7 hours ago, Key said:

Now you got me thinking something I hadn't considered before. If Biblical God is all knowing, and His memory is long, why would He need a reminder for Himself?

 

The rainbow was a reminder for us, not God. I'm relatively certain that God would not forget his own covenant with us. 

[Pete]

Dan the last time I spoke you believed the flood was in China and Noah's ark sailed over the mountains to get to mount Hermon. It's a case of any explanation will do as long as it proves the bible correct. Maybe the flood was on the moon tomorrow. 

[Pete]

The other aspect of the topic is unless you can entertain the possibility that the bible may not be true then your not a free thinker. You need to be able to be open to other possibilities and reestablish your thoughts accordingly.  You begin with the bible is fact and end with the same. Ergo your not a free thinker. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I've always said and believed that Noah's Flood was regional, so I'm not making things up as I go along. I'm probably the most consistent person here, while you've indulged in many beliefs. My belief is more important because it provides answers where science is silent. You have no facts to confirm where you came from or where your going, so no facts equate to "I don't know and I don't care". And as I've said, a fulfilled prophecy is a subjective fact, but you ignore those type of facts because they interfere with what you prefer to believe.

 

 

The rainbow was a reminder for us, not God. I'm relatively certain that God would not forget his own covenant with us. 

 

 

 

Genesis 9:16

Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

 

 

[Dan56]

21 hours ago, Pete said:

Dan the last time I spoke you believed the flood was in China and Noah's ark sailed over the mountains to get to mount Hermon. It's a case of any explanation will do as long as it proves the bible correct. Maybe the flood was on the moon tomorrow. 

 

I believe Eastern China experienced the deluge,... I remember posting 3 links that supported my point of view, and my position hasn't changed.

 

20 hours ago, Pete said:

The other aspect of the topic is unless you can entertain the possibility that the bible may not be true then your not a free thinker. You need to be able to be open to other possibilities and reestablish your thoughts accordingly.  You begin with the bible is fact and end with the same. Ergo your not a free thinker. 

 

I entertained whether the bible was true or false, and after careful consideration, I became convinced that it was true.. I'm as much of a free thinker as those who have determined the bible is false.. Prove to me where its false and I'll adjust my thoughts accordingly.

 

18 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Genesis 9:16

Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

 

That verse and others are often ascribed for the sake of men, who being forgetful, need help with their memory. It doesn't imply that forgetfulness or remembrance belongs to God. This isn't a notation that God made for himself, but was written to us to remain mindful of the covenant. 

[cuchulain]

I'm an atheist leaning towards the apathetic view now, Dan.  If your God is regional why should I care any more about him than Zeus or taranis or babba yaga?

[Pete]

The problem with your view Dan was that the Ark would of had to sail over higher mountains than mount Hermon to get to mount Hermon and if the water was that high then much of the land around the whole of Asia, Europe  Africa and America would of had to be flooded.  There is no evidence of this. It matters not how you pack it Dan the biblical account is not possible if the flood was in China.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Pete

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

6 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I believe Eastern China experienced the deluge,... I remember posting 3 links that supported my point of view, and my position hasn't changed.

 

 

I entertained whether the bible was true or false, and after careful consideration, I became convinced that it was true.. I'm as much of a free thinker as those who have determined the bible is false.. Prove to me where its false and I'll adjust my thoughts accordingly.

 

 

That verse and others are often ascribed for the sake of men, who being forgetful, need help with their memory. It doesn't imply that forgetfulness or remembrance belongs to God. This isn't a notation that God made for himself, but was written to us to remain mindful of the covenant. 

 

That is what the Book says.  Not what you want it to say.  Not good enough?  You're making crap up as you go.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I'm an atheist leaning towards the apathetic view now, Dan.  If your God is regional why should I care any more about him than Zeus or taranis or babba yaga?

 

 

 

Yes.  These arguments have become both silly and tedious.  It's not worth it.  We quote the Bible.  We don't have the right understanding.  We quote science.  It doesn't count.  I can't do it any more.

 

 

 

 

 

[Key]

9 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

That verse and others are often ascribed for the sake of men, who being forgetful, need help with their memory. It doesn't imply that forgetfulness or remembrance belongs to God. This isn't a notation that God made for himself, but was written to us to remain mindful of the covenant. 

Defining words in that passage, Dan, "...I will see it and remember..."

If it were for only the sake of men, why not say, "...man will see it and remember..."?

As it stands in the book, it seems as much for His sake has it is man's. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

51 minutes ago, Key said:

Defining words in that passage, Dan, "...I will see it and remember..."

If it were for only the sake of men, why not say, "...man will see it and remember..."?

As it stands in the book, it seems as much for His sake has it is man's. 

 

 

It's Dan.     

 

 

[Dan56]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:15 AM, cuchulain said:

I'm an atheist leaning towards the apathetic view now, Dan.  If your God is regional why should I care any more about him than Zeus or taranis or babba yaga?

 

Well, that's a step in the right direction ...  The flood was regional, not God

 

On 12/16/2019 at 4:31 AM, Pete said:

The problem with your view Dan was that the Ark would of had to sail over higher mountains than mount Hermon to get to mount Hermon and if the water was that high then much of the land around the whole of Asia, Europe  Africa and America would of had to be flooded.  There is no evidence of this. It matters not how you pack it Dan the biblical account is not possible if the flood was in China.

 

I don't recall speculating about Mt Hermon per se? I suspect the ark landed somewhere in the northern foothills of the Tarim Basin. After the flood, Noah may have traveled near Pamir (Eden) when he migrated to UR (southern Iraq), but I don't think Pamir was a plateau 4000 years ago.

I simply believe it was a limited flood that possibly occurred in the Tarim Basin or eastern Turkestan region. If so, the ark didn't leave that area and likely landed in the northern foothills of the basin. So no, Noah never 'sailed' over Pakistan to get to Mt Ararat in Turkey. The "Mountains of Ararat" in Genesis 8:4 clearly refers to a general region, not a specific mountain. There was no Mount Ararat in biblical times.

 

This site has the map that I previously referred to; http://www.depodio.com/noah.htm

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

17 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

Well, that's a step in the right direction ...  The flood was regional, not God

 

 

I don't recall speculating about Mt Hermon per se? I suspect the ark landed somewhere in the northern foothills of the Tarim Basin. After the flood, Noah may have traveled near Pamir (Eden) when he migrated to UR (southern Iraq), but I don't think Pamir was a plateau 4000 years ago.

I simply believe it was a limited flood that possibly occurred in the Tarim Basin or eastern Turkestan region. If so, the ark didn't leave that area and likely landed in the northern foothills of the basin. So no, Noah never 'sailed' over Pakistan to get to Mt Ararat in Turkey. The "Mountains of Ararat" in Genesis 8:4 clearly refers to a general region, not a specific mountain. There was no Mount Ararat in biblical times.

 

This site has the map that I previously referred to; http://www.depodio.com/noah.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan56]

20 hours ago, Key said:

Defining words in that passage, Dan, "...I will see it and remember..."

If it were for only the sake of men, why not say, "...man will see it and remember..."?

As it stands in the book, it seems as much for His sake has it is man's. 

 

Well, to me its just God assuring Noah that He will not forget the covenant that He just made. The rainbow was a token of that covenant, it represented a promise that would never escape God's remembrance. Perhaps it wasn't written as, "man will see it and remember" because that statement would not have been true, many men don't recall the covenant no matter how many rainbows they see? But clearly, It doesn't imply that an omniscient God is a forgetful moron who needed to tie a bow in the sky to remember a covenant, but rather a sign of reassurance of a promise that God would not renege on His word and would not flood the earth again. To me, "I will remember" is a factual statement, it doesn't imply that God is forgetful.