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Jonathan H. B. Lobl

A Pagan Voice with something to say.

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When I was pagan, specifically druid, the best resources to follow for me were histories.  The others were by and large hokey mumbo jumbo.

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9 hours ago, LeopardBoy said:

It’s been my experience that the loudest voices in the pagan community speak for and to a specific audience. Namely adherents of the myriad traditions that derive from Wicca or are at least similar enough to speak the same ritual and theological “language”.

 

Many of the reconstructionist polytheists, myself included, or followers of indigenous polytheisms tend to keep to our own smaller communities.  We don’t have that same shared language for the most part that the greater pagan community has. Which again is due to its origins in a specific religion (Wicca), or an eclectic pagan mix so derived from it that they at least share the same Western occult-based ritual stylings and eight holidays.

 

 

That makes what you have to say, all the more interesting.  I hope you will stick around.

 

:cheers:

 

 

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3 hours ago, cuchulain said:

When I was pagan, specifically druid, the best resources to follow for me were histories.  The others were by and large hokey mumbo jumbo.

 

 

In my limited experience -- some of the people that I met -- who said that they were Pagan -- had no idea of what a Pagan is.  Some were frauds.  Some were delusional.  Most were simply silly.  A few were real.

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

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On 8/12/2019 at 11:42 PM, LeopardBoy said:

It’s been my experience that the loudest voices in the pagan community speak for and to a specific audience. Namely adherents of the myriad traditions that derive from Wicca or are at least similar enough to speak the same ritual and theological “language”.

 

Many of the reconstructionist polytheists, myself included, or followers of indigenous polytheisms tend to keep to our own smaller communities.  We don’t have that same shared language for the most part that the greater pagan community has. Which again is due to its origins in a specific religion (Wicca), or an eclectic pagan mix so derived from it that they at least share the same Western occult-based ritual stylings and eight holidays.

 

I went to my inbox and found a blog from Starlight Witch.  She seems to think that Wiccans are not welcome under the "Pagan Umbrella".

 

I don't want to take sides.  Or inflame anything.  To me, this looks like a cultural divide.  As divides go -- not that bad.  I look at a real divide, say -- between Catholic and Protestant -- or Sunni and Shia -- Really.  Not that bad.  Real divides have body counts.  People will have disagreements.

 

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/starlight/2019/08/the-big-pagan-umbrella-witchcraft/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Pagan+News+and+Views&utm_content=37

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I went to my inbox and found a blog from Starlight Witch.  She seems to think that Wiccans are not welcome under the "Pagan Umbrella".

 

 

The thing is that Wiccans are the most widely publicized sect of the Pagan multiverse, and therefore are assumed by many to be Paganism as a whole.  Nothing could be farther from the truth, despite the fact that many Pagans (myself included) got a start BECAUSE of Wicca.  Simply because it is more available than other varieties of Paganism.

 

Also, there is a big difference between "pagan" (little P) and "Pagan" (big P) that is often ignored.  Just the same as witchcraft and Witch are not interchangeable.   Both of the first terms (little letters) are more of a "what one does" rather than "who one is."  

 

I read the post you shared, Jonathan, and it seems that the author is pissed about people who are plainly ignorant.  The fact of the matter is that there are ALWAYS people who are ignorant..  The author is a Witch, so I would expect her writing to be largely about Wicca, just like I expect John Beckett to be more Druid and UU, or Cyndi Brennan to be heavy on Hekate.  That's who they are, they write from their worldview.  So does Starlight Witch, which is perfectly fine.

 

It sounds like she's suffering from a common thing that authors get hit with: Fans who are under the mistaken impression that the author belongs to the fans, rather than the fans and author existing in a symbiosis. The fact of the matter is that the author's writings come from the author, full stop.  The author is under no obligation to write what fans want or expect.  After all, the fans' expectations are theirs, not the authors.

 

Pagans are people too, including often being ignorant twats.  It seems that the author in this case is fed up with those.

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4 hours ago, Geordon said:

 

The thing is that Wiccans are the most widely publicized sect of the Pagan multiverse, and therefore are assumed by many to be Paganism as a whole.  Nothing could be farther from the truth, despite the fact that many Pagans (myself included) got a start BECAUSE of Wicca.  Simply because it is more available than other varieties of Paganism.

 

Also, there is a big difference between "pagan" (little P) and "Pagan" (big P) that is often ignored.  Just the same as witchcraft and Witch are not interchangeable.   Both of the first terms (little letters) are more of a "what one does" rather than "who one is."  

 

I read the post you shared, Jonathan, and it seems that the author is pissed about people who are plainly ignorant.  The fact of the matter is that there are ALWAYS people who are ignorant..  The author is a Witch, so I would expect her writing to be largely about Wicca, just like I expect John Beckett to be more Druid and UU, or Cyndi Brennan to be heavy on Hekate.  That's who they are, they write from their worldview.  So does Starlight Witch, which is perfectly fine.

 

It sounds like she's suffering from a common thing that authors get hit with: Fans who are under the mistaken impression that the author belongs to the fans, rather than the fans and author existing in a symbiosis. The fact of the matter is that the author's writings come from the author, full stop.  The author is under no obligation to write what fans want or expect.  After all, the fans' expectations are theirs, not the authors.

 

Pagans are people too, including often being ignorant twats.  It seems that the author in this case is fed up with those.

 

 

The thing about the article that got me, was the broad sweeping classifications.  It listed Pantheism as a subgroup of Paganism.  Seriously?  Someone can't tell the difference between Pan and Polly -?  

 

Some distinctions are worth making.  Just because we have a religious designation, outside of Monotheism, does not make it Pagan.  It's a small thing.  Like a mosquito bite.  Still, it irritates me.

 

 

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Thanks guys! We were on vacation the last couple of weeks so I will pick up my research from here and will return with further questions or follow-up questions...

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7 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

Thanks guys! We were on vacation the last couple of weeks so I will pick up my research from here and will return with further questions or follow-up questions...

 

 

Welcome back.     :cheers:

 

 

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9 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

Thanks guys! We were on vacation the last couple of weeks so I will pick up my research from here and will return with further questions or follow-up questions...

 

I hope that your vacation was fulfilling, and look forward to your further  questions.

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