Apa-theism: Not caring whether or not God exists

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Apatheism:  Not caring whether or not God exists.

 

For the people who are tired of arguing non-belief (Atheism) and not knowing (Agnosticism).

 

For those who simply don't care and don't want to argue metaphysics.  

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Geordon]

3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

don't want to argue metaphysics

 

People like that exist?!?!?!?!

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 hours ago, Geordon said:

 

People like that exist?!?!?!?!

 

 

I've overdosed.  In particular, I'm thinking of the time I was at a party.  I was having a perfectly lovely time, chatting trivia, when the subject of religion came up.  I was asked what my religion was.  I said, Atheist.  Next thing I knew, I was confronted with tearful pleadings for mutual tolerance.

 

Too many stupid conversations.  I say Atheist -- I get a more or less standard of collection of stupid responses.  I say Agnostic, I get the other standard collection of stupid responses.

 

Then again, there's the crap arguments going on between the Atheists, The Agnostics and the Antitheists.  

 

Enough.  I can't do it any more.  I'm sick of arguing trivia -- and there's no trivia like metaphysics.  Arguments about God.  Nobody has anything resembling objective facts -- but oh, the passions.  What gets me is how people advocate for their labels -- not their actual views -- their labels -- as though their lives were on the line.  It's so toxic.

 

 

[cuchulain]

sound emotional stability might very well require us to insist on converting everyone to this.  i've interpreted right, yes?  (an attempt at humor)

[Geordon]

57 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Nobody has anything resembling objective facts -- but oh, the passions. 

 

 

See, that's one of my favorite things about Buddhism:  There is no god that you have to appease.  There are saints, sort of, technically, but they are neither holy nor divine, except in that they have attained enlightenment on some level and the only holiness that they have comes from their teachings and actions.

 

In Buddhism, there is no threat of punishment if you break the rules.  Just as rain falls and the sun rises, so are the consequences of what you do.  This is karma.  "You break it, you bought it."

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I had to drop out of a few Facebook Atheist groups.  The question came up -- yet again -- If you had to choose a religion, which religion would you choose?  I decided to go for humor.  I said, "Agnostic".  Guess what?  These groups have no sense of humor. 

 

It was a Fuster CLuck.  They ganged up.  I left.  From their reaction, you would think I had walked into a church and pissed on the altar.

 

 

[Geordon]

Pardon the expression, but... Jesus wept.

 

Why in the world were they talking about choosing a religion in the first place?!?!?!

 

I spend a lot of time on Quora, and I follow a number of people who happen to be Atheists.  Just the other day, I saw one of them respond to some question about "why do atheists do/not do" something.  I don't remember exactly what it was, but it's not germane.  

 

Anyway, this guy said something about how he and his family *do* go to some church or another.  What struck me is that he said something about how he understands the benefit of community membership, even if he does not ascribe to the dogma or faith even though he sits through the sermon every Sunday.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, Geordon said:

Pardon the expression, but... Jesus wept.

 

Why in the world were they talking about choosing a religion in the first place?!?!?!

 

I spend a lot of time on Quora, and I follow a number of people who happen to be Atheists.  Just the other day, I saw one of them respond to some question about "why do atheists do/not do" something.  I don't remember exactly what it was, but it's not germane.  

 

Anyway, this guy said something about how he and his family *do* go to some church or another.  What struck me is that he said something about how he understands the benefit of community membership, even if he does not ascribe to the dogma or faith even though he sits through the sermon every Sunday.

 

It's a variety of smugness that these groups indulge in.  When Atheists come together -- they're like any other group.

 

It's a form of elitism.  I have outgrown religion.  I know better.  They need religion.  They need prayer.

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

As a word, Apatheism is already in common usage.  On Youtube.com, a search under Apatheism brings up a lot of videos.  Not surprisingly, some of them are from Christians and Muslims, who can't stand the idea, that people don't care whether or not God exists.

 

 

It shows how mistaken I can be.  I was sure that Apatheism was the label that no one could find fault with.  The pious truly won't leave anyone alone.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Dan56]

On 5/29/2018 at 1:24 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Apatheism:  Not caring whether or not God exists. 

 

Just sounds like an Agnostic with an attitude to me .

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

 

Just sounds like an Agnostic with an attitude to me .

 

This is your analysis?  That I have an attitude?

 

I tried the Atheist label.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't believe?  The religious took it as a personal affront.  As though I were repudiating everything that mattered to them.  All those silly arguments about Scripture and metaphysics...…..

 

I tried the Agnostic label.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't know?  The religious took it as indecisive.  Wishy washy.  Spineless.  You quoted Romans at me.  "God spits out those who are neither hot nor cold."  All those silly arguments about knowledge and what is knowable -- distinct from belief.

 

I went with Apatheist.  What could be more harmless than -- I don't care?  No more arguments about belief.  No more arguments about knowledge.  Now -- you think I have an attitude?  Because I don't care and I'm tired of arguing?

 

I'm going to stop now -- before I say something that I'll have to apologize for.

 

 

 

[mererdog]

15 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

What could be more harmless than -- I don't care? 

Consider the emotional impact of telling someone that you don't care about their spouse, their parent, or their child. Imagine the social consequences of saying that you don't care about the Holocaust. "I don't care" may actually be one of least harmless things you can say.

Edited July 16, 2018 by mererdog

[mererdog]

When I tell people I am an atheist, I rarely catch any crap. It probably helps that I am enormous, and have a disarming smile. Frankly, I rarely catch any crap over anything. It makes life easier... I get to call myself whatever feels right to me. So I call myself an atheist.

 

On one level, I don't care about God, because I have a core belief that God is not real. The same sort of irrationally comforting belief as my belief that the Sun will rise, or my belief that my wife loves me. But on perhaps a more important level, I care about God because others care about God. God is real to them, and so God has a real effect on my life. 

Also, I have been wrong about stuff before. It seems only prudent to rethink my preconceptions.

Edited July 16, 2018 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, mererdog said:

When I tell people I am an atheist, I rarely catch any crap. It probably helps that I am enormous, and have a disarming smile. Frankly, I rarely catch any crap over anything. It makes life easier... I get to call myself whatever feels right to me. So I call myself an atheist.

 

On one level, I don't care about God, because I have a core belief that God is not real. The same sort of irrationally comforting belief as my belief that the Sun will rise, or my belief that my wife loves me. But on perhaps a more important level, I care about God because others care about God. God is real to them, and so God has a real effect on my life. 

Also, I have been wrong about stuff before. It seems only prudent to rethink my preconceptions.

 

It is religion that touches your life.  Not God.    Religion exists.     

 

By all means, rethink your preconceptions about God.  It's not like the results matter, either way.      

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, mererdog said:

Consider the emotional impact of telling someone that you don't care about their spouse, their parent, or their child. Imagine the social consequences of saying that you don't care about the Holocaust. "I don't care" may actually be one of least harmless things you can say.

 

I'm trying to find a safe, neutral word that won't get everybody's panties in a bunch.

 

Religious people tend to react badly to Atheism.  They take it as an attack.

 

Alright.  You don't like I don't care?  You find a word that works.  Seriously.  You're the master of nuance.  Do you think you can do better?

[mererdog]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Religious people tend to react badly to Atheism.  They take it as an attack.

I haven't found that to be the case. As I indicated earlier, though, it might be contextual. In the context of an amiable giant, people may simply be more inclined to take things as they come....

Edited July 16, 2018 by mererdog

[mererdog]

2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Alright.  You don't like I don't care?

Its not that I don't like it. I can just see why it would rub some people the wrong way. If you're looking for a label that is completely non-controversial, I'm afraid there's not going to be one. The position you're labeling is inherently controversial, as are all religious positions. What you call it can't prevent people from reacting to what it actually is, and a subset of people will see your position as hostile to their own. That's why I was taught as a child that religion is one of the subjects we don't talk about in polite society...

🙉🙊🙈

Edited July 16, 2018 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

33 minutes ago, mererdog said:

Its not that I don't like it. I can just see why it would rub some people the wrong way. If you're looking for a label that is completely non-controversial, I'm afraid there's not going to be one. The position you're labeling is inherently controversial, as are all religious positions. What you call it can't prevent people from reacting to what it actually is, and a subset of people will see your position as hostile to their own. That's why I was taught as a child that religion is one of the subjects we don't talk about in polite society...

🙉🙊🙈

 

Polite society?  The culturally dominant get to proclaim the glory of their faith, while the rest of us whisper or go silent?  Screw that.  You're making a case that I've been too nice.  I'll take it under advisement.

 

 

[mererdog]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Polite society?  The culturally dominant get to proclaim the glory of their faith, while the rest of us whisper or go silent? 

The idea is that those who loudly proclaim their faith in public are being rude in a way that damages the ability of society to function. The same was said of partisanship. These are mores from the Old South, where being soft spoken and getting along are considered virtues in and of themselves. Where being Pleasant Company is thought of as a higher calling...

I added the see no evil hear no evil monkeys earlier to suggest the basic danger with that thinking. The mild mannered tend to get steamrolled by those who don't bother being polite. Yet I still tend to ma'am and sir, you know? It really does make life more pleasant, for the most part...

Edited July 17, 2018 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, mererdog said:

The idea is that those who loudly proclaim their faith in public are being rude in a way that damages the ability of society to function. The same was said of partisanship. These are mores from the Old South, where being soft spoken and getting along are considered virtues in and of themselves. Where being Pleasant Company is thought of as a higher calling...

I added the see no evil hear no evil monkeys earlier to suggest the basic danger with that thinking. The mild mannered tend to get steamrolled by those who don't bother being polite. Yet I still tend to ma'am and sir, you know? It really does make life more pleasant, for the most part...

 

In my opinion, manners are good and civility is a virtue.  For all that, the meek do not inherit the Earth.  They get eaten.  People who don't demand respect, don't get any.  

 

It starts in such small ways.  Silly things.  Insignificant things.  Forcing God into the Pledge of Allegiance.  Such a silly thing to fight over.  You're a patriot, right?  You can just mumble or cough over the offensive words.  A religious national motto.  "In God we trust."  Just a little something to help bring us together.  It doesn't mean anything.  It's not religion, right?  Prayer at a High School Football game?  You don't want to make a fuss and be rude, do you?  Blasphemy laws?  Well, we all want to be polite, don't we.? It doesn't mean anything. It's just manners.  You don't really want to be rude and hurt anybody's feelings, right?  Sabbath Blue laws?  Well, there are social norms.  A two ton monument to the Ten Commandments in front of the Court House?  You don't have a problem with civics, do you?  All over America, police cars and Public Schools proclaim -- "In God we trust."  Well, it's the National Motto.  You have national pride don't you?  A Nativity scene in front of the Public Library?  What are you?  Some kind of Grinch?  It's a Winter Festival.  It's for the children.  Do you hate children?  Then one day, you look up.  Atheism is a criminal offence.  Like Saudi Arabia or Iran where Atheism gets you the death penalty.  Or Indonesia, where Atheism is a psychiatric disorder.

 

So many little, tiny things.  Like snowflakes.  They have no weight.  But if you have enough of them, trees break and roofs collapse.  

 

Maybe, having good manners is not the highest priority.  Because when the pious become cultural bullies, sometimes, being rude is all we've got.  At minimum, it can feel great.  

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl