Dan56 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 On 3/7/2018 at 5:40 PM, VonNoble said: True or false - it is wrong to hurt an innocent child. If its wrong, my parents got a lot of explaining to do... False, innocent children act-up, sometime its a necessity to correct them On 3/7/2018 at 8:19 PM, VonNoble said: True or false....if you drop you pen it will hit the ground? False, not if it lands in your lap. On 3/7/2018 at 8:50 PM, VonNoble said: True or false..... All sunsets are beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. False, not everyone cares about the sunset. If no one see's a sunset, is it beautiful? Kind of like; If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a noise? 17 hours ago, VonNoble said: True or false 5 + 5 = 10 True... If it were false, I've been giving people the wrong change back for decades 10 hours ago, VonNoble said: True or false I know that the Earth is spherical (not flat.) True, everyone knows that now. If these are the questions pondered over in philosophy classes, I'm kind of glad I never signed-up for one.. They are all questions a child could answer, but I'm sure the whole idea is to take a common sense answer and philosophically change or interpret the question to mean something else.... Or in layman's terms; Gibber Gabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dan56 said: If its wrong, my parents got a lot of explaining to do... False, innocent children act-up, sometime its a necessity to correct them False, not if it lands in your lap. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. False, not everyone cares about the sunset. If no one see's a sunset, is it beautiful? Kind of like; If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a noise? True... If it were false, I've been giving people the wrong change back for decades True, everyone knows that now. If these are the questions pondered over in philosophy classes, I'm kind of glad I never signed-up for one.. They are all questions a child could answer, but I'm sure the whole idea is to take a common sense answer and philosophically change or interpret the question to mean something else.... Or in layman's terms; Gibber Gabber Alas, the Flat Earth continues to have it's advocates. Some of them can be observed on You Tube. Our Education system has failed us. Some of these Flat Earth advocates, have come to their conclusion as a result of Scripture. It is a thing of great sadness. Edited March 9, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: It is possible to have too much intellectual purity. I know that I know that the Earth is round. Not a perfect sphere. Actually, egg shaped. Aye, I could say I know it's an oblate spheroid, it all depends on your point of view. That's the problem - it depends on the definition of knowledge. I assume epistemological reflection was the point of this exercise, but I didn't pose the question and I don't want to assume the definition, ergo I don't know if I know the answer (or even can, if we're talking about intellectual purity). Could be false, could be true. I don't know. I have no frame of reference. I could have just asked, or supplied my own, but I know this ain't the kiddie pool so I figure as long as I'm jumping in I might as well dive deep and cut right to the heart of the matter. I "know" the whole universe is flat, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. If I answered any other way it would have been a lie. Is that too much purity? I don't know. It depends on your point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kingfisher said: Aye, I could say I know it's an oblate spheroid, it all depends on your point of view. That's the problem - it depends on the definition of knowledge. I assume epistemological reflection was the point of this exercise, but I didn't pose the question and I don't want to assume the definition, ergo I don't know if I know the answer (or even can, if we're talking about intellectual purity). Could be false, could be true. I don't know. I have no frame of reference. I could have just asked, or supplied my own, but I know this ain't the kiddie pool so I figure as long as I'm jumping in I might as well dive deep and cut right to the heart of the matter. I "know" the whole universe is flat, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. If I answered any other way it would have been a lie. Is that too much purity? I don't know. It depends on your point of view. Unless we are engaged in true "Gnosis" -- where we know something with absolute supernatural certitude -- we must have some confidence in our experts. Yes, experts have been mistaken. Sometimes, the experts have such strong evidence that the probability of their correctness is high. The Earth has been measured with great precision. I'm willing to go with the consensus. The shape of the Universe? Maybe. The evidence is weaker. But maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: Unless we are engaged in true "Gnosis" -- where we know something with absolute supernatural certitude -- we must have some confidence in our experts. Even if I presume the most common usage of language, I haven't done any of the measurements myself. I have faith that the Earth is "spherical" (although viewed in higher dimensions I'd call it something else, and agree that it was flat in two) because I have confidence in the methodology. Other minds with empirical evidence might know, but based on the subjective standard of consensus we've arbitrarily just agreed upon, I don't. My intuitive sense tells me that dogs know things, but I've yet to make any gnostic observations about the geometry of the Earth. It seems kinda silly to describe the world of form with the tools of the supernatural (or vice versa). If I had to assign language to it I might say that when you get down deep enough, everything looks rather wiggly. Spiritually it's ineffable, and materially it's subjective. Philosophically I don't know if there's any true knowledge in the chaos, or if we're just seeing horses in the clouds and sharing the delusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Thinking Visually About Higher Dimensions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: It is possible to have too much intellectual purity. I know that I know that the Earth is round. Not a perfect sphere. Actually, egg shaped. This is where the class opted to “stick the landing” ....and we got a green light to move to the next (and last problem we were able to complete).... von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 The class (over 50 people) had to work together and reach a majority opinion to get through ten “problems” it was an earn extra credit exercise.... the number of points we earned was based on how many of the ten we could “solve” to the professor’s satisfaction. The very last one .....the one we never got to.... was I know God exists....had we reached it I don’t think we would have completed the list then either As it was - we completed only enough to snag 12 points each for the days efforts (frankly we were happy to get that much).... The last one we worked on... I know I am not living on the matrix... von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Dan56 said: If its wrong, my parents got a lot of explaining to do... False, innocent children act-up, sometime its a necessity to correct them False, not if it lands in your lap. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. False, not everyone cares about the sunset. If no one see's a sunset, is it beautiful? Kind of like; If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a noise? True... If it were false, I've been giving people the wrong change back for decades True, everyone knows that now. If these are the questions pondered over in philosophy classes, I'm kind of glad I never signed-up for one.. They are all questions a child could answer, but I'm sure the whole idea is to take a common sense answer and philosophically change or interpret the question to mean something else.... Or in layman's terms; Gibber Gabber Dan56, I REALLY appreciate your humor. I am glad I am taking ONE class to get an overview. I can appreciate the process used has worth. However, there are plenty of frustrations in this learning process! Not just the topic but too - the TEAM APPROACH to all aspects of this class. It doesn’t make it wrong... but the process of my success being linked ....to what others do in terms of my grade is new to me. There ARE moments where I can see “the others” have carried me when I was slow to grasp material. So so that is good I guess. i know I am not likely to take another Philosophy class. The value of it all in my view is fairly narrow. I KNOW that Philosophers want it to be more. I know my professor would argue re: the EXTREME value of this line of study. It would see since the time of the ancients it has not yet been deemed to be elevated as a popular field of study.... so it is not valued as much as Philosophers think it ought to be... Then again we are only mid-way thru the introduction....maybe that will change. Like you I had...and continue to have doubts but figure I need to take AT LEAST ONE class to get a feel for it. Too early to make a final determination... the half way point keeping an open mind is harder than week one ... that’s for sure.... I have to WORK to see the value... von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, VonNoble said: The last one we worked on... I know I am not living on the matrix... You can't live on the matrix. It has no physical structure to support weight, no monetary value to pay your bills with, and no nutritional value to keep you fed with. The concept of the matrix is intentionally designed to preclude knowledge that you are not in it- it is nonfalsifiable by design. It does the job very well, so I say "False." All evidence you are not in the matrix is just the matrix tricking you. Edited March 9, 2018 by mererdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 hours ago, VonNoble said: The class (over 50 people) had to work together and reach a majority opinion to get through ten “problems” it was an earn extra credit exercise.... the number of points we earned was based on how many of the ten we could “solve” to the professor’s satisfaction. The very last one .....the one we never got to.... was I know God exists....had we reached it I don’t think we would have completed the list then either As it was - we completed only enough to snag 12 points each for the days efforts (frankly we were happy to get that much).... The last one we worked on... I know I am not living on the matrix... von Depends on if you take the blue pill, or the red one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, mererdog said: "False." All evidence you are not in the matrix is just the matrix tricking you. ...our class never reached a majority with most voting undecided. NOT because they could not decide.... they were stumped on how to verify/prove it. von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Key said: Depends on if you take the blue pill, or the red one. ..at least I saw the movie and “got that” .........AND enjoyed it thx von 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Key Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, VonNoble said: ..at least I saw the movie and “got that” .........AND enjoyed it thx von Yah, I enjoyed that trilogy. Enjoyed them more at home with captions and the sound turned off. Hate hearing Keanu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, VonNoble said: ...our class never reached a majority with most voting undecided. NOT because they could not decide.... they were stumped on how to verify/prove it. Which means that the belief is not justified. Even if the belief is true, it does not meet the definition of knowledge you have been given. So the answer must be "False." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 "The Matrix" was one specific movie trilogy. Aside from that -- we could be living in a computer simulation. How would we know? We wouldn't. There is a way to tell if we are dreaming. The dreaming brain is dyslexic. Pick up a book and start reading. If you can read the page in front of you -- you're awake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonNoble Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: "The Matrix" was one specific movie trilogy. Aside from that -- we could be living in a computer simulation. How would we know? We wouldn't. There is a way to tell if we are dreaming. The dreaming brain is dyslexic. Pick up a book and start reading. If you can read the page in front of you -- you're awake. Is that for real? I M gullible enough to believe it. If it’s for real the team will love it as I suspect we will see this one (Matrix) again as one of the ones not solved by the class (like extra credit on a quiz).... von Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Key said: Depends on if you take the blue pill, or the red one. Both pills are equally illusory. It doesn't matter which pill you take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, VonNoble said: Is that for real? I M gullible enough to believe it. If it’s for real the team will love it as I suspect we will see this one (Matrix) again as one of the ones not solved by the class (like extra credit on a quiz).... von This method will tell you if you are having a lucid dream. It will not tell you if you are in a computer simulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: There is a way to tell if we are dreaming. The dreaming brain is dyslexic. Pick up a book and start reading. If you can read the page in front of you -- you're awake. I used to believe this. I occasionally read in my dreams, though. Never anything as complex as a book. Just signs and labels. And not on a regular basis. Edited March 9, 2018 by mererdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.