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And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The woman spoken of here is the Roman Catholic Church. Her bishops and Cardinals are dressed in scarlet(red) and purple. Their cathedrals are adorned with gold, jewels and precious stones. The head of the Roman Catholic Church (the Pope) drinks from a golden cup. The headquarters of the Church sits on 7 Hills.

5And upon her forehead wasa name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for the death of at least 50,000,000 Christians during the 600 year inquisition because they refused to adhere to the Popes rule. The Pope calls himself "The Holy Father". That's God's title. He also calls himself the Vicar of Christ. This is blasphemy. The scriptures proclaim The Holy Spirit is the Vicar of Christ (meaning the one sent to stand in for Christ) and it wasn't a man. Many of history's Pope's fornicated with married women and had many illegitimate children

7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

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Call me crazy, but I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't have fond feelings for the Catholic Church. Any other religions, churches, institutions, or people that you don't care for? Might as well get it all out at the start.

Edited by RabbiO

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And thats what you took from that? You must be Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church murdered over 50 million baptists and other Christians through a period of 600 years using extreme torture devices and technics all because they wouldn't accept their ways. Look it up. It's in the history books and the Catholic Encyclopedia. The Catholic Church doesn't teach by scripture, they add to it with their own writings, change meanings and wording of the bible.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.   Yet, the Pope says no one can recieve salvation who isn't Catholic.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. The Pope belives you can only be saved through him. Herasy. The Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ..blasphemy. Do you want to believe God's word, or the words of many conceited, power hungry sin filled Popes. Do your history. It is not my opinion of the Catholic religion, it is historical and biblical fact. I am teaching truth not opinion. You have made your opinion of me and that's fine. You have that right, just as I have the right to teach and preach the truth. May the LORD bless you RabbiO and peace be to you.

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3 hours ago, PastorDave1974 said:

And thats what you took from that? You must be Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church murdered over 50 million baptists and other Christians through a period of 600 years using extreme torture devices and technics all because they wouldn't accept their ways. Look it up. It's in the history books and the Catholic Encyclopedia. The Catholic Church doesn't teach by scripture, they add to it with their own writings, change meanings and wording of the bible.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.   Yet, the Pope says no one can recieve salvation who isn't Catholic.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. The Pope belives you can only be saved through him. Herasy. The Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ..blasphemy. Do you want to believe God's word, or the words of many conceited, power hungry sin filled Popes. Do your history. It is not my opinion of the Catholic religion, it is historical and biblical fact. I am teaching truth not opinion. You have made your opinion of me and that's fine. You have that right, just as I have the right to teach and preach the truth. May the LORD bless you RabbiO and peace be to you.

RabbiO is Jewish, to my understanding...please correct me if I am in error, Rabbi.

 

That said, there very well might be Catholic members of this forum.  I would find what you posted offensive, and would consider that perhaps what you have to say better posted in the area called preaching rather than philosophy.  OF course, I am one of those dreaded atheists...

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That's the problem with the world today. Everybody finds something offensive. I'm sorry if you find history offensive but it is history not an opinion. That is why there is freedom of speech and freedom of expression. You choose to believe there is no God. I choose to bellieve the word of God and choose to try and teach the truth to the masses. You have the choice to accept what I teach to be truth or to choose not to accept it. I don't condemn you for that choice or find what you say to be offensive. That's not for me to judge. In respect if you find what I have to say as offensive then kindly move on. I don't judge you, in return do not judge me, just respect the fact of my beliefs as I respect your beliefs of no belief at all. May God, whom you do not believe in, bless you and peace be to you.

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By the way Cuchulain, here is the definition if philosophy...

the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
  • a particular system of philosophical thought.
    plural noun: philosophies
    "Schopenhauer’s philosophy"
  • the study of the theoretical basis of a particular branch of knowledge or experience.
    "the philosophy of science"
    synonyms: thinking, thought, reasoning
    "the philosophy of Aristotle"

     

    So I think what I said does belong in philosophy rather than preaching. If you'd like me to preach on this subject I can do that too.

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On 2/27/2018 at 4:36 PM, PastorDave1974 said:

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The woman spoken of here is the Roman Catholic Church. Her bishops and Cardinals are dressed in scarlet(red) and purple. Their cathedrals are adorned with gold, jewels and precious stones. The head of the Roman Catholic Church (the Pope) drinks from a golden cup. The headquarters of the Church sits on 7 hills....

I am following to the point the Scriptures quoted ....could be (and probably are)...facts to believers.  No issue there.

and thx for your patience with the next bit....

 

After paragraph #4....isni’t the next bit an interpretation?    The Bible does not actually SAY it is referencing the Catholic Church does it?

 

once we enter the illusive world of interpretation.... facts cease to exist, no?otherwise all people using the same book would come to the same conclusion wouldn’t they?   

 

This is has always puzzled me.    

 

If the book book is the authority and they mean Catholics... why not just say so?

 

That lapse of understanding maybe reflects more about my inability ....than it reflects on anything else.    Maybe I just don’t get it.    Or haven’t so far.

 

thx

von

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You can interpret the book any way you want. The only problem is.... your not putting things into context.....and thats the problem with Revelations....its a hard book to understand and to follow...One thing is for certain...May 14th 2018....God will become overdue in a promise he gave to Israel....when this occurs...Those names who are written in the Lambs Book of Life ......will disappear...and the world will cave in......when i say cave in.....evrybody in the world knows about... all the calamities that have been predicted by scientist that are overdue....The earth has been robbed of its lubricants.....How much oil do you think the world has used from the Earth.....and threw it into the skies......  The Book of Thessalonians....Something will be taken....and the man of sin will be revealed....frankly....i see the Earth as a rusty old junk car.....The Earth is going to shudder and shake....one will be taken....and the other one left....but God never says what happens after the other one is left.....its the time when God made a promise to Israel....Jeremiah 29......That which belongs to Christ is gone....and God said he will return to Israel .....and it is thru Israel that God will use as a weapon against those left upon the Earth....why do you think Israel is still here....or maybe you can give me a reason why over 10 million Jews evaporated from the Earth and they were given a chance to be .....ISRAEL.....again.....Where the Roman Church is......its hard to say....could be right...I do know this.....False Prophet is a good description.....The Roman Church is full of Idolatry.....but the thing that condemns those that are Catholics......and the Pope......comes from the Ten Commandments.....and the words Jesus Christ spoke in  Matthew 23......YOU SHALL CALL NO MAN FATHER.....for you have only one Father and he is in Heaven......even Christians are guilty of idolatry.....we dont worship the cross.....but people use as a symbol of faith....and its SOoooo wrong....Dont put an Idol before God....Humble yourself.....If you believe......that's all that's needed....what has been done has been done......in my life.....I put nothing between God and myself.....not a cross......not a church      .......NOTHING.......and this is part of the Foundation in which my Temple of God is built on

Edited by mieshec

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VonNoble, it doesn't say the word Catholic for the same reason Jesus spoke in parables. For the ones who sought the truth they would recieve understanding of the word. For the ones who did not seek the truth and chose to turn away from God they would not understand what was written or spoken to them.

Mieshec, sounds like what you are refering to is what some call the rapture. You say this will happen on May 14, 2018. Jesus said in Mathew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. As far as idols, the cross is not an idol to me it's something we all bear. It is a reminder of God's love of the human race. In the old testament we were required by God to sacrifice our best animal to him as a sign of faith to forgive our sins; usually a lamb. In the new testament Jesus Christ took the place of the animal sacrifice of faith for all mankind. God's Son was sent for this purpose. John 3:17 For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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22 minutes ago, PastorDave1974 said:

VonNoble, it doesn't say the word Catholic for the same reason Jesus spoke in parables. For the ones who sought the truth they would recieve understanding of the word. For the ones who did not seek the truth and chose to turn away from God they would not understand what was written or spoken ....

PastorDave1974, 

Thank you for the prompt and equvication free explanation  :thumbu:

von

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No....i did not say May 14th 2018....Christ would return.....The Bible is a Jewish Book.....The gentiles or nations have only a small role....To inherit salvation....and his name will be written in the Lambs Book of Life.....In Jeremiah 29.....a two fold promise was made to Israel.....They were held in captivity for 70 years by Babylon.....and released.......but God has never returned to Israel......on May 14th 1948....after 10 million plus Jews were murdered......and the world gave Israel BY BIRTHRIGHT........their land back.....and over 5 nations decided .......that wasnt going to happen......let me see......Jordan.....Syria......Egypt......Russia.....Israel should not have survived.....70 years God told Israel that he would return to them......and never turn away.....Oh....Israel has been in captivity over 70 years......nobody on their borders wants the Jews to live......Christ takes what is his....and God returns to Israel....as God used Babylon as a weapon against Israel......God returns to Israel....and uses Israel as a weapon.....against those left upon the Earth.....On May 14th 2018......70 years has been completed....and we know that we are close....because......Mankind is going insane.....Matthew 24......AND THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD........how true is that......Who is the wise servant.....The one that waits PATIENTLY for his master to return.....but he knows when he will return by the seasons......WOW....look at Revelations 18....thats some creepy stuff....a friend of mine said America cannot be found in scripture....if Revelations 18.....isnt about America......tuff call

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Ok....how about a history lesson.....at one time....the Bible was in Latin....The Book....was A Holy Bible....you were not suppose to read it....doing so would either get you tortured or burned at the stake....The Roman Church made it clear....only priest were allowed to read from the Book....because it was Holy.....and then they began to translate it and people were burned at the stake for that.....considered Heretics......Pope PiusXII......The movie Valkyrie with Tom Cruise....is based on this....During the Siege of the Vatican by Nazis....The Pope took in over a 1000 Jews.....Fearing his life.....he gave them up....they paraded a 1000 Jews in front of the Popes Apartment .......and they went to the gas chambers

Edited by mieshec

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VonNoble, you are welcome. Funny you should say that the bible is a Jewish book and the gentiles play only a small role when todays true Jewish people are still waiting for the 1st coming of the messiah and do not believe that Jesus was he. The bible was penned by men but authored by God. God does not see Jew or gentile, black or white. He sees His creation, created in His image. All mankind decended from God's original creation of Adam. Bloodlines throughout the centuries have been tainted by evil and fallen angels but we are still decendents of Adam and also Eve for without her there would be no children.

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Ok, heres a history lesson for you. The old testament was originally written in Hebrew, not Latin and the new testament was written in Greek, not Latin. As far as being read by only priest that was the Popes order. He wanted to control the information given to the people. Salvation was ment for all who believed in Christ. The Pope wanted people to believe salvation was only through him. This is simply church history, part of year one seminary college for bachelors degree in theology.

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3 hours ago, VonNoble said:

PastorDave1974, 

Thank you for the prompt and equvication free explanation  :thumbu:

von

Oops....equivocation....sorry just notice I really messed up the spelling above....oops, oops, oops....

 

von

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11 hours ago, PastorDave1974 said:

VonNoble, it doesn't say the word Catholic for the same reason Jesus spoke in parables. For the ones who sought the truth they would recieve understanding of the word. For the ones who did not seek the truth and chose to turn away from God they would not understand what was written or spoken to them.

Well just so I can understand.... why did Jesus speak in parables? ;)   I do not get this at all.    For non- Christians this is really confusing (and maybe in Christian world it is so unimportant it is a silly question)..... but why not just say it directly and eliminate the guesswork?    

 

If God intended for all believers to set an example ..... a good enough example that the Agape love of Christians ..... as THE WAY.... the truth etc..... I just don’t get why the message is so confusing.... 

 

If we want people to be wary of evil.... then why not call evildoers our by name?     In the book.

 

Why not list the bad guys by name?   Why so complicated we need people to interpret it for us?

 

How do you get to “ know God” if you have to have a middle man constantly helping you?    And how do I know this middle man is getting it right?... cuz that others dudes over there....with the same exact book.... tells me he is more right?

 

it seems God has a bunch of free agents?  

 

I do not mean that in a problematic way.   If God exists .... I have met some great human beings who served as ambassadors for generosity, and forgiveness and kindness..... operating wearing his uniform....but they taught by offering unconditional goodness even when others did not deserve it at all.

 

Hiw does someone trust the message of the messenger with so much conflict in the process?

 

why doesn’t God just assign one clear to understand spokesperson?    I sort of thought that was the job of Jesus.    But there isn’t much agreement amongst the zillion offshoots of Christian to get s clear consensus.   

 

Sorry if any any of this is somehow offensive.  I REALLY AM just trying to understand.

 

von

 

 

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VonNoble, it is not offensive if you truely seek the truth and understanding of God's word. The answer to your question about why Jesus spoke in parables can be found in Mattew chapter 13 starting at verse 10 Bare with me as I recite scripture and then I will explain it.

        Matthew 13:10 

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

           

           God gave mankind free will to do and to believe what we want. God loves us very much, so much that he sent his only Son to us to die for our sins so that we may be forgiven. We were created by God in His image and just as we love our children and try to teach and guide them they utimatley choose their own path and when they do we scold or punish them. God is no different. He gives us instruction. 66 books penned by over 40 writers inspired by 1 author; God himself. It's called the Holy Bible. To just anybody picking up this book and reading it seems like gibberish. Only when we se to know God our Father on a spiritual level is His word explained to us. You do not need an interpreter to understand the Bible. If you pray to God from your heart and ask for u derstanding of his word he will grant you unsterading. This what Jesus was speaking of when he said they have eyes but do not see and ears but do not hear. They did not seek to understand His word, therefore they did not. Yes, Pastors, Reverends, Priests, Elders help to interpret the message but if you don't seek understanding then it still won't make sense. Many people go to church not because they seek God but because that's what they think they are suppose to do and it's more of a show than an act of faith. Every single person is a sinner, no matter how perfect they may seem to be on the outside.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:9-20 

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

         This is the reason God no longer conversates with us in the traditional sense of verbal conversation. In the begining God walked and talked with man in the Garden of Eden. When man sinned for the 1st time by disobeying God's commandment of not eating from the tree of knowledge he separated himself from God. God is without sin and can't be anywhere near it so when man sinned he removed Himself from our presence. He now talks to us by other means; conviction of the heart (our conscience) by his angels guiding us, by our fellow man who bring us his word and plant the seed in our hearts. By you asking questions as you have shows you want to know more. That is the first step my friend. That is were your walk begins. God doesnt want to condemn us but rather give us eternal life with him in paradise. He longs for us to believe in Him. This is achieved by having faith

       Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This means that salvation and eternal life is not granted by good works but by faith alone. You could do good works all your life and still not recieve salvation because you never had faith.

       John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This means having faith and believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was sent here to die on a cross for us, to pay a price that we never could, that the shedding of his blood would wash our sins away. This is the belief and faith God wants us to have. 

           I hope this answered some of your questions. please feel free to ask anything you want. As I said, I do not find it offensive, God called me to teach and preach his word and I serve him happily. May God grant you understanding of the message He has given you today. This does not come from me but is inspired by God alone. I am nothing but a vessel used by Him to bring His word to the world.  

         

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1 hour ago, ReverendDaveULC said:

VonNoble, it is not offensive if you truely seek the truth and understanding of God's word. The answer to your question about why Jesus spoke in parables can be found in Mattew chapter 13 starting at verse 10 Bare with me as I recite scripture and then I will explain it.

        Matthew 13:10 

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

           

           God gave mankind free will to do and to believe what we want. God loves us very much, so much that he sent his only Son to us to die for our sins so that we may be forgiven. We were created by God in His image and just as we love our children and try to teach and guide them they utimatley choose their own path and when they do we scold or punish them. God is no different. He gives us instruction. 66 books penned by over 40 writers inspired by 1 author; God himself. It's called the Holy Bible. To just anybody picking up this book and reading it seems like gibberish. Only when we se to know God our Father on a spiritual level is His word explained to us. You do not need an interpreter to understand the Bible. If you pray to God from your heart and ask for u derstanding of his word he will grant you unsterading. This what Jesus was speaking of when he said they have eyes but do not see and ears but do not hear. They did not seek to understand His word, therefore they did not. Yes, Pastors, Reverends, Priests, Elders help to interpret the message but if you don't seek understanding then it still won't make sense. Many people go to church not because they seek God but because that's what they think they are suppose to do and it's more of a show than an act of faith. Every single person is a sinner, no matter how perfect they may seem to be on the outside.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:9-20 

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

         This is the reason God no longer conversates with us in the traditional sense of verbal conversation. In the begining God walked and talked with man in the Garden of Eden. When man sinned for the 1st time by disobeying God's commandment of not eating from the tree of knowledge he separated himself from God. God is without sin and can't be anywhere near it so when man sinned he removed Himself from our presence. He now talks to us by other means; conviction of the heart (our conscience) by his angels guiding us, by our fellow man who bring us his word and plant the seed in our hearts. By you asking questions as you have shows you want to know more. That is the first step my friend. That is were your walk begins. God doesnt want to condemn us but rather give us eternal life with him in paradise. He longs for us to believe in Him. This is achieved by having faith

       Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This means that salvation and eternal life is not granted by good works but by faith alone. You could do good works all your life and still not recieve salvation because you never had faith.

       John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This means having faith and believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was sent here to die on a cross for us, to pay a price that we never could, that the shedding of his blood would wash our sins away. This is the belief and faith God wants us to have. 

           I hope this answered some of your questions. please feel free to ask anything you want. As I said, I do not find it offensive, God called me to teach and preach his word and I serve him happily. May God grant you understanding of the message He has given you today. This does not come from me but is inspired by God alone. I am nothing but a vessel used by Him to bring His word to the world.  

         

Thank you.

Namaste, 

von

 

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