Using psychology in ministry

[Dan56]

5 hours ago, mererdog said:

Isaac Newton was not an apple, yet he was able to learn a lot by observing apples. A priest may have no firsthand knowledge of what it is like to be married, but they can have a ton of observational evidence regarding what does and does not produce a successful marriage. And, potentially, they have a level of objectivity the rest of us don't, so they may even see the matter more clearly.

As a first step, "Ask your pastor" will usually be solid advice. Clergy tend to operate at the center of a social network. While a minister may not know the answer to your question, they probably know someone who does.  

 

All true.. I guess you don't need to be knee deep in the hog pen to know you'll get muddy. An outside observer can be more objective because they are emotionally detached from a situation. But for serious mental problems, finding a professional to analyze a problem and provide therapy would be more prudent than consulting your priest. 

 

For some battered women, a minister will only green light a divorce on the grounds of adultery. So imo, consulting someone who's decisions are influenced by a set of beliefs, is not always beneficial, especially to a woman who's getting the crap beat out of her everyday.

 

Long ago, I trusted a financial adviser who convinced me that it would be more prudent for me to trust him with my investments because I was emotionally attached to my money and prone to panic, while he could be much more objective, saw the big picture, and would keep me in solid investments that would pay-off big.. He then commenced to lose $300k of my hard earned money, without suffering any emotional issues. I've never entrusted another "professional" since then .. Now, I'm content to make my own investments, and am proud to say that I've had no trouble losing money on my own

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

32 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

 

All true.. I guess you don't need to be knee deep in the hog pen to know you'll get muddy. An outside observer can be more objective because they are emotionally detached from a situation. But for serious mental problems, finding a professional to analyze a problem and provide therapy would be more prudent than consulting your priest. 

 

For some battered women, a minister will only green light a divorce on the grounds of adultery. So imo, consulting someone who's decisions are influenced by a set of beliefs, is not always beneficial, especially to a woman who's getting the crap beat out of her everyday.

 

Long ago, I trusted a financial adviser who convinced me that it would be more prudent for me to trust him with my investments because I was emotionally attached to my money and prone to panic, while he could be much more objective, saw the big picture, and would keep me in solid investments that would pay-off big.. He then commenced to lose $300k of my hard earned money, without suffering any emotional issues. I've never entrusted another "professional" since then .. Now, I'm content to make my own investments, and am proud to say that I've had no trouble losing money on my own

 

 

There are ministers, who will tell the battered woman, to stay by her marriage vows, no matter what.  

 

Sometimes, the clergy should be consulted last.  

 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[mererdog]

4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

But for serious mental problems, finding a professional to analyze a problem and provide therapy would be more prudent than consulting your priest. 

And yet, if one is not a mental health professional, one is not qualified to know when that is the case, right?

If you are emotionally overwrought, your problems will seem more severe to you than they really are. You may think you have a disorder, when all you have is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. In such a case, all you really need is a little perspective and maybe a bit of sympathy- no special training needed, so going to a therapist would be to waste a lot of money.

Edited December 28, 2017 by mererdog

[mererdog]

4 hours ago, Dan56 said:

For some battered women, a minister will only green light a divorce on the grounds of adultery. 

For some women, a doctor will only rape them. It is not the norm, however, so I would not want anyone to avoid going to the doctor because of it, unless I knew that it applied to them, personally.

Edited December 28, 2017 by mererdog

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, mererdog said:

And yet, if one is not a mental health professional, one is not qualified to know when that is the case, right?

If you are emotionally overwrought, your problems will seem more severe to you than they really are. You may think you have a disorder, when all you have is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. In such a case, all you really need is a little perspective and maybe a bit of sympathy- no special training needed, so going to a therapist would be to waste a lot of money.

 

I've actually been there.  Someone came to me for counseling.  I had to state clearly, that I was not qualified to provide the needed guidance.  I can tell when I'm out of my depth.  It's not difficult.  What is difficult, for me, is to knowingly engage in malpractice.  Like pushing on, when I know better.  

 

 

[mererdog]

8 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I can tell when I'm out of my depth.  It's not difficult. 

Ah. So your idea of knowing your limitations includes an assumption that you can't make a mistake about what your limitations are. That is odd.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, mererdog said:

Ah. So your idea of knowing your limitations includes an assumption that you can't make a mistake about what your limitations are. That is odd.

 

If I am going to be mistaken about my ability, I will err on the side of caution.  

 

If I am speaking as a minister, and I find that the person who has come to me for assistance, needs help that I can't provide -- I would be an idiot to continue and hope that I can muddle through.

 

I also practice Reiki.  When a young man came to me, requesting a neck adjustment -- I had to tell him that I don't perform Chiropractic procedures.  I declined his request.  

 

Both as a minister and as a reiki practitioner; I have a scope of practice.  I know where my lines are and I don't cross them.  I'm not a Chiropractor and I'm not a Psychologist.  

 

 

[cuchulain]

im as prone to error as any priest or psychologist, so maybe i would guess my limits incorrectly just like they occasionally do.  since i dont offer services in those areas, it saves me malpractice suits.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, cuchulain said:

im as prone to error as any priest or psychologist, so maybe i would guess my limits incorrectly just like they occasionally do.  since i dont offer services in those areas, it saves me malpractice suits.

 

Did you ever look into clergy malpractice insurance?  I looked into it, maybe 20 years ago.  I was told it was only for clergy with a master's degree.  I did not mention my D.D. from ULC.  They declined me.  I did not look further.

[Rev. Calli]

Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers,

 

One of the most important lessons I learned in seminary was how to tell the difference between someone struggling with a legitimate spiritual problem vs mental illness, and then to apply the 3R rule.  If someone comes to me because they have questions about faith (at least in a Christian context) am I more then happy to spend many sessions together sharing my understanding of faith issues.  If they are exhibiting signs of mental illness though, I will only meet with them for three sessions, and then refer them to a Pastoral Counseling Center or another mental health professional who has the training and the license to work with people suffering from mental illness.  

 

It's vitally important to any minister to know when they are out of their depth when working with people who have mental health issues.  When you get right down to it, most of us who have gone through mainline seminary program has really only been trained in crisis therapy.  We have enough classroom and practical experience thru internships to help people in situations (like the death of a loved one) get through the first few weeks of dealing with grief, loss, questions of faith, etc,  Most of the time that is really all we need.  But for people with mental health issues (including addictions) they need much more then we have been equipped within the normal training process.  To pretend otherwise is to delude ourselves, and commit spiritual malpractice on those who come to us.

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli