Gnostic Bishop Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Dan56 said: Its not a bad deed to the husband and his mistress who found happiness and pleasure with each other.. In their minds, its wonderful and good, so screw the wife.. Its the same with God, we can't claim to be doing good deeds and expect a God that we've rejected to give us credit for it. God defines what's good, and it starts with the first commandment. There are things we do that are good in and of themselves. God does not punish those things, he punishes sin.. If a person murders your wife and then washes your car for free, do you give him credit or punish him? Again you speak of evil deeds when I was speaking of good deeds. By your standards of evil, even Ghandi would end in hell as he does not accept Jesus as savior. By your standards, genocide and having your son needlessly murdered is good so I reject you as a source of morality. It is no wonder that you like your intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 18 hours ago, Gwynn said: As a Polytheist, I interact with the Gods as I would a friend, lover, or family member depending on my relationship with a specific God. But it is not necessary for someone to have a God in his or her life. My ancestors would make war upon the Gods when they were at odds with them. I find comfort in my relationship with the Gods, but I make decisions for myself. Sometimes I feel they are trying to tell me something, but I weigh their message against my own thoughts. Ultimately, I am always responsible for myself. Neither the Devil (who is not a part of my belief system anyway) nor the Gods make me do anything I don't want to do. I also interact with angels, demons, faeries, and other spirits, but again I follow my own counsel. As you suggested, I think the various ideas about God do owe much to their respective cultural frameworks, whether speaking of ancient or modern cultures BTW, I realize that speaking of my interaction with Gods, angels, demons, and faeries may put off some people, but I do not require others to endorse my beliefs in the supernatural for me to treat them with respect or for them to be my friends. My way is the path I have chosen, but I do not believe it is the only valid path. I feel that when a person believes his or her way is the only way it can lead to intolerance or self aggrandizement. I would ask that before others mock my beliefs that they would consider the more fantastical aspects of their own belief systems That's good enough for me. The rest is detail. It is good to have friends on the path. No matter how different the paths are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dan56 said: If a husband is unfaithful to his wife, is it wrong for the wife to not give her husband credit for pleasing the other woman? If we aren't faithful to God, nothing else matters. Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead. You only need a God if you wish to live, but if your content with life ending in 80 years or so, I guess God isn't a priority.. For believers, God is not a cultural habit, He's the beginning and the end of their existence. This much is true. God is not my priority. For the rest, your faith has no application to my life. Your faith does not define me. Edited January 30, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said: I would say that cultural habit is a good way to class our need to invent or have Gods. I think that monotheism is likely the best way to try to look at God because then one can develop a singly ideology that can be expressed by that single mind. In a world of conflicting ideas, having an all encompassing single view is likely the best type of ideology. Sure, we all pick up drips and drabs to our ideology from many sources but must work them all into our one ideology. Christianity has a problem with this as they end with a genocidal God that is said to love all those he murders. That is why the Christian ideology is garbage. The same conflicted thinking applies to Islam. Regards DL I don't share that outlook. Monotheism is the affliction that keeps on giving. Polytheists tend to be mellow. Another god or 10,000. What do they care? A world outlook with no gods or god at all can also be mellow. If another group chooses to have strange beliefs; that is their problem. Monotheism is clearly the source of conflict and intolerance in the world. One God, one faith and one truth. Your "single ideology." Woe unto all others for they are in darkness. If they won't be persuaded peacefully, then by force. This much is the evidence of history. Even with each other, the Monotheisms have difficulty living in peace. Edited January 30, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Dan56 said: Its not a bad deed to the husband and his mistress who found happiness and pleasure with each other.. In their minds, its wonderful and good, so screw the wife.. Its the same with God, we can't claim to be doing good deeds and expect a God that we've rejected to give us credit for it. God defines what's good, and it starts with the first commandment. There are things we do that are good in and of themselves. God does not punish those things, he punishes sin.. If a person murders your wife and then washes your car for free, do you give him credit or punish him? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Dan56 said: Its not a bad deed to the husband and his mistress who found happiness and pleasure with each other.. In their minds, its wonderful and good, so screw the wife.. Its the same with God, we can't claim to be doing good deeds and expect a God that we've rejected to give us credit for it. God defines what's good, and it starts with the first commandment. There are things we do that are good in and of themselves. God does not punish those things, he punishes sin.. If a person murders your wife and then washes your car for free, do you give him credit or punish him? If the husband didn't see it as a bad thing then why did he hide it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynn Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said: Gnostic Christianity does not have such aspects and I think that assigning status to invisible absentee entities is a cop out to recognizing natural law and how it controls most, if not all of what we do. To me, to cry a supernatural wolf without showing the tracts or the ** is not a good thing and those who do believe in always saying the truth should recognize what they say of the Gods are lies. That is one of the things that bother me about priests, preachers and imams constantly lying to their sheeple about the supernatural. Regards DL Gnostic Christianity has its Monad, Demiurge, Archons, Aeons, and a Goddess (Sophia, a personification of wisdom and female aeon/counterpart of Christ ). These aspects are every bit as supernatural as those found in other belief systems. Early Gnostic Christians were notorious for practicing magic and fashioning charms, examples of which still exist Edited January 31, 2017 by Gwynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynn Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 hours ago, cuchulain said: Doesn't put me off, but that shouldn't be a surprise as I was a Druid for 20 years. I do not say this to mock, so please understand that this is simply my view of all religion these days, but I view all of it as mythology and faerie tales, and as you say there is nothing more fantastical about one belief system than another. I mean really...a man flew to heaven on a horse? worldwide flooding in which the only family saved was Noah's, and we aren't all inbred? Zeus gave birth to Athena by cracking open his head because he had a migraine? Same difference to me, my friend. The only difference for the religious is that they take it one step less than I do by believing in their religion, whereas I view it all as mythology. Hi Cuchulain, I understand your point. My interactions are more like a voluntary suspension of disbelief than a headlong trip down the rabbit hole. I do not expect the Fair Folk to clean my kitchen and wash my dishes. Demons do not make my walls bleed, nor have I caught angels dancing on the head of a pin. When my car breaks down I go to a mechanic rather than invoking Govannon the Smith God to fix it for me. I live in the real world, but I do have a castle in Annwvyn/The Otherworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwynn Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: That's good enough for me. The rest is detail. It is good to have friends on the path. No matter how different the paths are. I wholeheartedly agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Gwynn said: Gnostic Christianity has its Monad, Demiurge, Archons, Aeons, and a Goddess (Sophia, a personification of wisdom and female aeon/counterpart of Christ ). These aspects are every bit as supernatural as those found in other belief systems. Early Gnostic Christians were notorious for practicing magic and fashioning charms, examples of which still exist It is only superstition if the charms don't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said: Again you speak of evil deeds when I was speaking of good deeds. By your standards of evil, even Ghandi would end in hell as he does not accept Jesus as savior. By your standards, genocide and having your son needlessly murdered is good so I reject you as a source of morality. It is no wonder that you like your intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion. Good deeds by who's standards? I believe that only God is good. Yes, I believe Gandhi will perish because he had no Savior. As you know, I believe the sacrifice of Christ was necessary, not needless. My God is very tolerant and does not hate women. You paint a bleak picture of Christianity, so on all these things, we will consistently disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 6 hours ago, cuchulain said: If the husband didn't see it as a bad thing then why did he hide it? Because he went on to divorce his wife, marry his mistress, and they lived happily ever after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 21 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: I don't share that outlook. Monotheism is the affliction that keeps on giving. Polytheists tend to be mellow. Another god or 10,000. What do they care? A world outlook with no gods or god at all can also be mellow. If another group chooses to have strange beliefs; that is their problem. Monotheism is clearly the source of conflict and intolerance in the world. One God, one faith and one truth. Your "single ideology." Woe unto all others for they are in darkness. If they won't be persuaded peacefully, then by force. This much is the evidence of history. Even with each other, the Monotheisms have difficulty living in peace. I do not particularly see monotheism as the cause of our religious strife. I see literal belief in myths as the main culprit. The religious kill for their imaginary Gods when they should only kill for the causes of men. Man is the supreme ruler here and not some absentee God. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 21 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: Woe unto all others for they are in darkness. If they won't be persuaded peacefully, then by force. This has been the way for Christianity and Islam. If Christianity and Islam are poor examples, then we should look at the better ones that they have decimated. That is what I did and found that Gnostic Christianity had the best ideology to date. Some forms of Buddhism are close seconds. Both these last put people ahead of the imaginary Gods. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Gwynn said: Gnostic Christianity has its Monad, Demiurge, Archons, Aeons, and a Goddess (Sophia, a personification of wisdom and female aeon/counterpart of Christ ). These aspects are every bit as supernatural as those found in other belief systems. Early Gnostic Christians were notorious for practicing magic and fashioning charms, examples of which still exist Correct, but you have to separate our myth, which were written to put against the Orthodox Church when we all knew that we were using myths as a tool to further discussions and debates. Only when literal Christian belief reared its ugly head did the wars break out. Please listen to this clip on how in the beginning, all knew that the Gods were just mysterious entities that could only be know by the laws that men ascribed to them. The second clip gives a bit of history of the satanic carnage that literal belief brought to the world. http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2 Please Google ---- Allen Watts On the Book The Book of Eli Gnostic Christianity insists on free thinking and tying ourselves to imaginary Monad, Demiurge, Archons, Aeons, and a Goddess Sophia is not what we do. Myths are just stories to bring us to understanding reality. Reality and natural systems like the one we live in do not include anything supernatural. If they did, we would all know it. Regards DL Edited January 31, 2017 by Gnostic Bishop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Quote 15 hours ago, Dan56 said: Good deeds by who's standards? I believe that only God is good. Yes, I believe Gandhi will perish because he had no Savior. As you know, I believe the sacrifice of Christ was necessary, not needless. My God is very tolerant and does not hate women. You paint a bleak picture of Christianity, so on all these things, we will consistently disagree. Indeed. Your love of a genocidal son murdering God will keep you on the wrong moral path. Your God may not hate women but making them less than men is not a good indicator of love except to those of your immoral ilk. Gen 3; 16 Unto the woman He said: 'I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy travail; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Both Christianity and Islam would make slaves of women if they could. Islam is basically there and Christianity is not thanks to secular power that curbed your foul ideology. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said: I do not particularly see monotheism as the cause of our religious strife. I see literal belief in myths as the main culprit. The religious kill for their imaginary Gods when they should only kill for the causes of men. Man is the supreme ruler here and not some absentee God. Regards DL Can you cite any examples from history, of Polytheists killing for their gods? Politics, power, resources, etc.; but not for their gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: Can you cite any examples from history, of Polytheists killing for their gods? Politics, power, resources, etc.; but not for their gods. According to some of the old reports, Thuggee cults killed to apease Kali, so she would not destroy the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Bishop Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 12 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said: Can you cite any examples from history, of Polytheists killing for their gods? Politics, power, resources, etc.; but not for their gods. War has many variables and causes of which religions are a major factor. I do not think, since the majority has always been on the religious side, that you can take religion out of any war. I will not bother to try to divide the Polytheists from the Monotheists. That is a lost cause considering that even Christianity came from a polytheistic root and that current beliefs are all over the map. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchulain Posted February 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 10:56 PM, Dan56 said: Because he went on to divorce his wife, marry his mistress, and they lived happily ever after So then hiding it at the time, and committing adultery before the divorce, those weren't bad things? I reiterate, why did he hide the affair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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