Youch Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 "Religion and science are opposed....but only in the same sense as that in which my thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything." William BraggLove that quote! Thought it applicable to, and perhaps somewhat definitive of, the ULC membership.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 "Religion and science are opposed....but only in the same sense as that in which my thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything." William BraggLove that quote! Thought it applicable to, and perhaps somewhat definitive of, the ULC membership.... Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwater Vitki Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Agree...very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestingwave Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes. And when the perception of both unfolds to a greater and greater extent -- they will be seen as one thing -- totally indispensable to each other for the complete picture -- appreciation -- and understanding of the how and why of the Multiverse.namaste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes. And when the perception of both unfolds to a greater and greater extent -- they will be seen as one thing -- totally indispensable to each other for the complete picture -- appreciation -- and understanding of the how and why of the Multiverse.namasteI agree with some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revtimothybland Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Right on. Right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emalpaiz Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 That was a wonderfull quote. Thank you!Hermano Luis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Science and Religion don't have to be in opposition. When Genesis is brought into the Science class, they are in opposition. When the forces of Religion oppose the teaching of evolution, then they are opposed. If we can keep Science in the classroom and religion in the church -- nothing is in opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Science and Religion don't have to be in opposition. When Genesis is brought into the Science class, they are in opposition. When the forces of Religion oppose the teaching of evolution, then they are opposed. If we can keep Science in the classroom and religion in the church -- nothing is in opposition. Reducing the quote to the issue of teaching religion is school, or introducing science to religion, is to miss the point entirely.Take the "opposition" of school and church out of it. Now re-read the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Reducing the quote to the issue of teaching religion is school, or introducing science to religion, is to miss the point entirely.Take the "opposition" of school and church out of it. Now re-read the quote.I understood the quote. It was cute. Ha Ha.I stand by my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emalpaiz Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Science and Religion don't have to be in opposition. When Genesis is brought into the Science class, they are in opposition. When the forces of Religion oppose the teaching of evolution, then they are opposed. If we can keep Science in the classroom and religion in the church -- nothing is in opposition. I speak as a non-Christian. I have read the first chapter of Genesis many times; I see it as a poem of Creation not to be taken as scientific truth. I follow a Hindu-Vedantic traditions that may be called Hindu-Gnosticism. There are many Creation stories in the Hindu traditions, none to be taken as history or science.During my college years I was influenced by a Jesuit priest, Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881-1955), who was also a Mystic and Paleontologist. The study of his works convinced me that religion and science are not contradictory. To me religion is a path to spiritual enlightenment, a path to the profound understanding of my true nature through inner discipline and meditation. Science on the other hand is an understanding of the physical world (universe) in which we live. I feel sorry for thos who insist that that science must agree with religion or who believe that their sacred book is superior to scientific knowledge.Hermano LuisMorivivà Hermitage Edited March 23, 2014 by emalpaiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I have no problem with Genesis as a source of Spiritual wisdom. When it is brought into the classroom to replace or correct Science, the war is on. When Genesis is inserted into Science textbooks, the war is on. That is the problem. The people who insist that Genesis is "right" and Science is "wrong." As a source of wisdom, spiritual insight, what ever -- I have no problem with the book at all. Or the Vedic Scriptures for that matter, which also should not be in the Science class. Edited March 24, 2014 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panpareil Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 An enlightened religious understands that the truth cannot be put into words. The enlightened scientist also knows that reality will never be completely described. There is no conflict between those who are seeking truth. The conflict is between those who are misguided and deluded enough to think that they have found The Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I understood the quote. It was cute. Ha Ha.I stand by my comments.I should explain something. For three miserable years, I was a substitute NYC Public School Teacher. For me, there is nothing hypothetical about Religious pressure on the curriculum. I was there. I talked with the Science teachers on the front lines. This is very personal for me. There is nothing amusing or cute about Genesis as a Science text. Or the pious twits * who want to change the curriculum. * I'm being nice. Edited March 24, 2014 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I should explain something. For three miserable years, I was a substitute NYC Public School Teacher. For me, there is nothing hypothetical about Religious pressure on the curriculum. I was there. I talked with the Science teachers on the front lines. This is very personal for me. There is nothing amusing or cute about Genesis as a Science text. Or the pious twits * who want to change the curriculum. * I'm being nice.Unlike the original quote that understood that two sides can come together, the various teachers unions (the secular and intolerant Left* * I'm being nice) and the religious right (the evangelicals about whom the secular Left is intolerant), shall never understand that two sides can come together. Why must science teachers be afraid for a religious studies course over in Social Studies Department. It isn't "wanting religious studies in," instead it is demanding to be "put back in" as the libs have been running religion out or society just as fast as they replaced it with revisionist history. Rather than accept, which would be the mature, balanced approach, they impugn and smear and monger fear. And it seems it worked on you....you've been led to believe that there is religious pressure on science curriculum....it isn't true. Science teachers (so few are actually scientists) ought not be teaching religious studies any more than pastors would be teaching the evaporation temp of a given gas under a given pressure. Nope, one part of these opposing two will not grasp or tolerate the balance of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan H. B. Lobl Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I have never spoken with a Science teacher who wanted to teach a course on Bible. I have spoken with many Science teachers who were blasted for not giving "equal time" to "Intelligent Design." I was there. In classrooms all over NYC. Edited April 3, 2014 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I went to a Franciscan university and majored in both Biology and Theology. I don't have a problem with a school teaching science and religion simultaneously, as long as the disparate subjects are kept in the appropriate classrooms. If our "grammar" schools also properly teach rhetoric and dialectic the students will be equipped to navigate the stormy seas of discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I have never spoken with a Science teacher who wanted to teach a course on Bible. I have spoken with many Science teachers who were blasted for not giving "equal time" to "Intelligent Design." I was there. In classrooms all over NYC.Well...... that is one of the many reasons why NYC schools fail....forcing teachers to teach that of which they know naught. If we get the social engineers out of our public indoctrination systems, and instead taught only reading, writing, math and the hard sciences, social studies, history, technology, mechanics, problem solving and physical fitness, then we'd all be better off AND, our tax dollars would be less prone to political manipulation.On the other hand, if a private school wants to expand it's curriculum (Religious Studies, Christianity, intelligent design, whatever), that is their business.I went to a Franciscan university and majored in both Biology and Theology. I don't have a problem with a school teaching science and religion simultaneously, as long as the disparate subjects are kept in the appropriate classrooms. If our "grammar" schools also properly teach rhetoric and dialectic the students will be equipped to navigate the stormy seas of discord. Edited April 3, 2014 by Youch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I have read the first chapter of Genesis many times; I see it as a poem of Creation not to be taken as scientific truth. I follow a Hindu-Vedantic traditions that may be called Hindu-Gnosticism. There are many Creation stories in the Hindu traditions, none to be taken as history or science.That is very much how I view religious text. Doing so, allows me to learn wisdom and enjoy a well-turned verse. Not doing so only leads me to reject it all. I prefer doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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