Welfare

[lordie]

Thanks kokigami

i don't think an education is needed on my part i been around this welfare and ssi and here in pa

if some one recieves ssi and works (work incentive program) they are liable to pay income tax and same for the welfare .the old people who make 1500 or over has to pay income tax and medicare . so here in pa it is different no tax excemption unless u make under 1500 .

Only thing i don't like w this law is this my ex goes to welfare after getting me kick out and say he got kick out too the welfare wouldn't help me because i choose to leave my ex lived next door

i told the welfare basically what he did they said the landlord should throw him out well yea after i

left the welfare paid for his full year in a new place and then he got a gov cell phone and he tracked mine he got a extra money . so when i moved i had to move again to were i am now .i got a bad rep from my first landlord my second let me go my apt leaked i told my third landlord the truth . i have a nice place but i still say welfare couldve help me oh just so u know my ex lived w his mom when he got kick out and claimed he was living on the streets . and he got churches to pay for him an apt after the year on the welfare was up . i go i told the welfare and legal aide what happen they told me to stay that wasn't an option for me cause my ex slipped me ghb and prob raped me . well the way i look at it .he will get it sooner or later .

lordie

[kokigami]

The government is a consumer and redistributer. It is not a creator. It creates nothing. It coerces from one citizen and redistributes it to another. The land of the Louisiana Purchase was bought with confiscated private property. The railroad eminent domain property grabs by the government was again confiscating private property from one citizen and giving it to another.

The government finds this exercise to be rather limiting though. People tend to notice when you are taking their stuff. So they have two other ways to take private property that are less detectable to the public.

The first way is to put more dollars into circulation with nothing additional to back them. This decreases the purchasing power of each dollar by a small unnoticeable amount. Just as they are doing at the moment by paying their bond debt, which they call monetary policy or quantitative easing. This in essence shaves a small amount of the buying power of each dollar in our pockets, paychecks and 401ks, and transfers this value to the newly created dollars it is paying off its bond holders with, who are mostly bankers and stock brokers. What this is doing is slowly creating inflation, making the cost of everything go up, and slowly taking money out of everyone's pocket to pay off these rich bankers.

The second way is even more genius, they borrow money with no intention of paying it back within their or our lifetime. Our children and grandchildren will have to pay this back. It in essence takes private property from future citizens, some before they are even born.

But even with these methods you run into the same barrier. Eventually you run out of things to take from other people. And when you do there are only two unattractive options. A precipitous collapse of society into poverty, and violence, and/or the government redirects its confiscation from the assets of the last private property holders to the uncompensated labor it can extract from all.

While a government may be necessary, exactly what government is, is optional.

When I say all should pay taxes, let me be clear about what I mean. Everyone should donate the fruits of their labor deemed to be of a certain and equal value by the free market. I do not mean money taken from other tax payers.

The fact that not all can figure out how to create things that are valued by others is not a problem of poverty but of ignorance, and is not cured or addressed by material goods but by education.

The louisiana purchase WAS confiscated property. Confiscated by government. From natives. And given to the "private sector". And from that, is derived, nearly every modern property claim west of the MIssisipi. So, where does that put the wealth of the private sector, much of which is derived from the land confiscated by government and redistributed to its favored people (in this case, white folk.. ).

So, since all that wealth was redistributed by the government, and established much of the individual wealth of the nation, wealth in the form of personal property you seem to value so deeply, why, NOW, is redistribution so evil? And if it is always evil, why is not the fruit, a few generations on, also held as evil, in your eyes.. (Actually, I know the answer.. but I am curious as to what you will say to avoid saying it..)

[lordie]

I forget to mention when i moved to were i am at now i was pregnant and i lost it . i knew if i called welfare and reported they wouldn't do anything .

u c here in pa a abused women must prove abuse before getting help . but my old sis walks into welfare got child support amd other benefits that doesn't make sense my other sister can't get it even tho she is disabled and the welfare says she can work really they gave two people money that was in the wrong but i and my sis tell the truth we get zip i don't think that's fair?

is that what u all are talking about the unfairness i been on both sides .

Kokigami i know because people who are rich are afraid of departing w their riches and don't like it

[Youch]

ah, you seem to think those people don't pay taxes. I think we all should pay, in accordance with what we can. You think someone else should pay. See the difference?

The difference is, you think everyone should pay, but Everyone does not agree. Joe Q. Everyone. I will represent Everyone in this argument, and you will represent you. Since you can't make Everyone pay, you support legislation, or nowadays Presidential Fiats, that mandates a certain activity/behavior (the first time ever in American History, mind you) the your neighbors/Everyone WILL comply by threat of force or confiscation (Robert's Unconstitutional Tax, and a host of other Sec'y of HHS fines and penalties). Everyone believes in everyone, and you believe in a small group of functionaries with loyalties to only their elites, who are so far removed from your best interests, and fully unmoored from the Constitution, that your health needs are not a concern and even more sad, they have long ago taken your vote for granted because1) they know you are a drone, and 2) they don't care about Everyone.....how could they/it possibly!!!

Panpareil u are wrong everyone pay taxes including the welfare it is the law if anyone make over 1500 a month they have to pay taxes .no one is exempt until it is under 1500 and welfare pays taxes when the. buy something at the store and no they don't get exempt. from that or proptery tax. neither i don't know were u all are getting ur facts but its wrong. look up ssa.gov and c how or what our taxes pay for . and welfare has to pay school tax per child (which in my opinion all public schools are dumb)

And before u all get huffy get this when some one goes to the store to buy whatever it is the poor welfare person who pays more in taxes than the rich guy . i have seen it w my own eyes .

lordie

p.s. don't even think about posting welfare don't pay tax because it is not my prob u can't do research . and another charity donations go to welfare such as salvation army goodwill catholic charities doris day alll go towards welfare wait a. minutes hold it. catholic and lds help invent the welfare so duh!!!

In terms of Federal Income Tax? You are flat wrong.

http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of-americans-dont-pay-federal-income-tax-2013-9

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/09/19/the-real-truth-behind-the-47-percent-why-arent-these-people-paying-federal-income-taxes/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101015065

[Kingfisher]

I don't pay income tax, but I do spend 25% of my $9,700 annual SSD/SSI income on property taxes (for a 30 year-old trailer on ten acres.) It's still cheaper than renting, but I'm effectively forced to repurchase my home every ten years. My elderly parents are in the same boat, watching their American Dream being taxed away in their golden years, losing everything they busted their tails for all their lives. Retirement? Hah! If you can't continually feed the ever-growing appetite of the machine then you obviously don't deserve to keep what you've made for yourself. They'll just take it and give it to someone who will "work harder" (read: pay more taxes) while convincing you that it's in your best interest. A serf has no real motivation to improve their condition because they know the fruits of their labor will be consumed by someone else. When one cannot be content with their own condition and/or take responsibility for their own growth, then Mammon becomes their god. It's why thugs and banksters (if that's not splitting a semantic hair) are frequently idolized, and why asset taxes on "the 1%" are becoming a more popular idea. Nobody cares how you get your money, if you can flash that swag then you must be an important person who is worthy of special treatment. It doesn't matter if you think the rich or poor are the good guys or the bad guys, if money is your measure of a person it's utterly dehumanizing. There is a great need for charity in the world. The problem isn't that welfare is a bad concept, the problem is that it doesn't work. In theory, it's a compassionate system that serves the needs of the poor. In practice, it's just a book of regulations that serves the bottom line of plutocrats.

[kokigami]

The difference is, you think everyone should pay, but Everyone does not agree. Joe Q. Everyone. I will represent Everyone in this argument, and you will represent you. Since you can't make Everyone pay, you support legislation, or nowadays Presidential Fiats, that mandates a certain activity/behavior (the first time ever in American History, mind you) the your neighbors/Everyone WILL comply by threat of force or confiscation (Robert's Unconstitutional Tax, and a host of other Sec'y of HHS fines and penalties). Everyone believes in everyone, and you believe in a small group of functionaries with loyalties to only their elites, who are so far removed from your best interests, and fully unmoored from the Constitution, that your health needs are not a concern and even more sad, they have long ago taken your vote for granted because1) they know you are a drone, and 2) they don't care about Everyone.....how could they/it possibly!!!

You can't represent everyone in this arguement, because you don't represent everyone. Everyone includes us both. Semantically, it would be more correct, I think, to say "not everyone agrees". Which is my point, yes. You don't. Neither does Pan. But you both agree I should help pay for the military. See how the compromise works. I help pay for the military, which, in my view is bloated and wasteful, and you help pay for Welfare, which in your opinion is bloated and wasteful. I have always been curious what would happen if we allowed society to earmark their taxes themselves. The bill would remain the same, but the citizen would be able to assign it as percentages for different spending. That would be an interesting experiment.

Have you heard the polls show that acceptance, even appreciation, of Obamacare is on the rise? Still early in the life of this particular bill, but, it will be interesting to watch how it all pans out..

[panpareil]

You can't represent everyone in this arguement, because you don't represent everyone. Everyone includes us both. Semantically, it would be more correct, I think, to say "not everyone agrees". Which is my point, yes. You don't. Neither does Pan. But you both agree I should help pay for the military. See how the compromise works. I help pay for the military, which, in my view is bloated and wasteful, and you help pay for Welfare, which in your opinion is bloated and wasteful. I have always been curious what would happen if we allowed society to earmark their taxes themselves. The bill would remain the same, but the citizen would be able to assign it as percentages for different spending. That would be an interesting experiment.

Have you heard the polls show that acceptance, even appreciation, of Obamacare is on the rise? Still early in the life of this particular bill, but, it will be interesting to watch how it all pans out..

Actually, I don't think you should have to pay for the military. I also like your idea to earmark our federal contributions for what we wanted to fund, and in addition decide for ourselves how much we will pay.

[Youch]

You can't represent everyone in this arguement, because you don't represent everyone. Everyone includes us both. Semantically, it would be more correct, I think, to say "not everyone agrees". Which is my point, yes. You don't. Neither does Pan. But you both agree I should help pay for the military. See how the compromise works. I help pay for the military, which, in my view is bloated and wasteful, and you help pay for Welfare, which in your opinion is bloated and wasteful. I have always been curious what would happen if we allowed society to earmark their taxes themselves. The bill would remain the same, but the citizen would be able to assign it as percentages for different spending. That would be an interesting experiment.

Have you heard the polls show that acceptance, even appreciation, of Obamacare is on the rise? Still early in the life of this particular bill, but, it will be interesting to watch how it all pans out..

Actually, I don't think you should have to pay for the military. I also like your idea to earmark our federal contributions for what we wanted to fund, and in addition decide for ourselves how much we will pay.

This is going to have to be a hit and run, only a few minutes......

One point to make here is that the military is written into the Constitution, and welfare is not. Welfare is a relatively new thing in America, and its been a waste of trillions since the 60's, as the poverty rate has not changed a wink since Welfare's inception and has created generations of people (most notable in many minority communities) with dependency as their only experience.

The Federal Government should stick to it's defining charter, and equally follow the same charter and allowing/forcing states to solve most of their own "problems".....I put that word in quotes because really, with rare exceptions as noted in our social contract, most problems should reside on the shoulders of the individual and not at any level of inevitably self-serving government.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Youch

[ClericThomas]

I for one HATE working and am on Medicaid, SSI, SNAP and anything else I can get public aid or private and have no issues as long as the government can piss away money on corporate welfare and a bloated military industrial complex. In fact no one should have to work at all or do more than a minimum level since technology should be doing most of the labor farms mechanized, factories all run by robots, medical bots and so forth and robots making robots. Humans should focus then on leisure. We have all the resources needed to house, clothe and feed every human now if we focus on meeting basic needs and limit wants to a reasonable level.

We should have been phasing out work well before now, Capitalism is so evil.

Yes I'm a proud Atheist and Socialist.

[Brother Kaman]

I for one HATE working and am on Medicaid, SSI, SNAP and anything else I can get public aid or private and have no issues as long as the government can piss away money on corporate welfare and a bloated military industrial complex. In fact no one should have to work at all or do more than a minimum level since technology should be doing most of the labor farms mechanized, factories all run by robots, medical bots and so forth and robots making robots. Humans should focus then on leisure. We have all the resources needed to house, clothe and feed every human now if we focus on meeting basic needs and limit wants to a reasonable level.

We should have been phasing out work well before now, Capitalism is so evil.

Yes I'm a proud Atheist and Socialist.

So you believe that as long as the government is pissing away my money that I should support you too? I cannot print the words here to describe how I feel about that.

[grateful]

So you believe that as long as the government is pissing away my money that I should support you too? I cannot print the words here to describe how I feel about that.

I'm with you

valid objections to corporate welfare and other government spending is lost to me when you put your hand out like them. I don't care if you hate to work! get off your ass and work to keep yourself here on the planet. why should anyone carry your burden when you are able?

or was this tongue in cheek? a very subtle joke?

[ClericThomas]

I'm with you

valid objections to corporate welfare and other government spending is lost to me when you put your hand out like them. I don't care if you hate to work! get off your ass and work to keep yourself here on the planet. why should anyone carry your burden when you are able?

or was this tongue in cheek? a very subtle joke?

The government says I'm too disabled to work and I was born with cerebral palsy and have diabetes type two all I had to do was build on these and with a good lawyer a judge said I couldn't work backed by doctors. Fortunately pain and difficulties with complex situations mentally are kind of nebulous and adding those in as problems was easy. It was all done perfectly legal they never went into self-employment skills like my Busking or making jewelry or doing astrological charts as areas of work and I never offered this information since it wasn't asked for. And even my few former employers backed up my difficulty at doing assigned tasks as a reason for my being fired.

I for one just did what corporations would do exploit the rules for their benefit, I did for mine. Blame the government for having standard for disability so broad you can drive a truck through it if you stick to the rules and I didn't need to lie I have foot and hand issues, and pain all I did was write it down and say I need pain management for it which my primary care provider does. No one delved into that much and I never offered voluntary add-on points at the advice of council.

[grateful]

The government says I'm too disabled to work and I was born with cerebral palsy and have diabetes type two all I had to do was build on these and with a good lawyer a judge said I couldn't work backed by doctors. Fortunately pain and difficulties with complex situations mentally are kind of nebulous and adding those in as problems was easy. It was all done perfectly legal they never went into self-employment skills like my Busking or making jewelry or doing astrological charts as areas of work and I never offered this information since it wasn't asked for. And even my few former employers backed up my difficulty at doing assigned tasks as a reason for my being fired.

I for one just did what corporations would do exploit the rules for their benefit, I did for mine. Blame the government for having standard for disability so broad you can drive a truck through it if you stick to the rules and I didn't need to lie I have foot and hand issues, and pain all I did was write it down and say I need pain management for it which my primary care provider does. No one delved into that much and I never offered voluntary add-on points at the advice of council.

well that my friend, is a horse of a different color. I'm not clear how you view yourself in this though; do you feel you are disabled and unable to work or are you seriously just taking the money because you can and/or corporations do it?

it's interesting how the system works. a clear diagnosis usually guarantees assistance. yet I've seen children and families struggle for YEARS before receiving any help. i.e. a child with atypical retts disorder or sma.

if you are supporting yourself well with your entrepreneurial skills and taking, you are taking from me, and people like me. so you are as bad as the government, and a large part of the problem. you appear to share a mindset with an entity you clearly have disdain for.

what you do and how you decide to live your life is none of my business. boasting about taking advantage of hardworking people (me) however. tends to make us a little cross.

Edited April 5, 2014 by grateful

[Songster]

After reading Clerics comments... it amazes me how anyone could take pride in being a burden on society.... yet another case of how the programs instituted to help the needy have been abused by the greedy. Disgusting.

[kokigami]

The government says I'm too disabled to work and I was born with cerebral palsy and have diabetes type two all I had to do was build on these and with a good lawyer a judge said I couldn't work backed by doctors. Fortunately pain and difficulties with complex situations mentally are kind of nebulous and adding those in as problems was easy. It was all done perfectly legal they never went into self-employment skills like my Busking or making jewelry or doing astrological charts as areas of work and I never offered this information since it wasn't asked for. And even my few former employers backed up my difficulty at doing assigned tasks as a reason for my being fired.

I for one just did what corporations would do exploit the rules for their benefit, I did for mine. Blame the government for having standard for disability so broad you can drive a truck through it if you stick to the rules and I didn't need to lie I have foot and hand issues, and pain all I did was write it down and say I need pain management for it which my primary care provider does. No one delved into that much and I never offered voluntary add-on points at the advice of council.

while you have a valid point, re doing just what a corp would do, do you not see how puts you on a par with said corporations? You appear to fall into the complicated area of the the semi deserving poor. You are obviously clever enough to work the system, which means you are probably clever enough to work in the "system".

There are those who feel if you can work, you should stuggle along with the rest of us, and eek out a minimal existence. That is, in large part, because, the way the system currently works, the burden of your support is falling to those who are only marginally better off.

I don't have exact answers for this. Tax reform, moving more of the burden up the pyramid, seem like a good plan. Better screening and removal of corporate welfare would also help.

[lordie]

Cleric i am glad u got ur disability

Cleric i am glad u got ur disability check

[lordie]

Songster i wonder that sometimes too

My ex and my bro got me kick out of my apt about two years ago .my ex slip me ghb and every legal aid said i have the right to stay in my apt .but sense i choose to leave my ap my ex got kick out by the new tenent apparently the landlord is an idiot .any way i found out my ex got a year of rent from the welfare and free gov phone and a car .when i called ( before he got kick out ) welfare and ask them to help me they said no he should be kick out then i called the local help no one wold help me caue there was no legal right for me being thrown out and i choose to leave before the date of kick out . so. no one help me my bro gave me money as it was an apology for getting me kick out and my mid sis had to help me move again . still i pay my rent i pay my bills no relief or help for me .it does make me mad tho because the abuser gets the funds ment for people like me. or. Any other abuse vic .

but as i look back on it i realize it couldve been worse .

[ClericThomas]

while you have a valid point, re doing just what a corp would do, do you not see how puts you on a par with said corporations? You appear to fall into the complicated area of the the semi deserving poor. You are obviously clever enough to work the system, which means you are probably clever enough to work in the "system".

There are those who feel if you can work, you should stuggle along with the rest of us, and eek out a minimal existence. That is, in large part, because, the way the system currently works, the burden of your support is falling to those who are only marginally better off.

I don't have exact answers for this. Tax reform, moving more of the burden up the pyramid, seem like a good plan. Better screening and removal of corporate welfare would also help.

I would work however there are three issues I have no references from an employer when I did work it was self-employment, and largely for tops Busking or doing a street craft and getting some money so no references or work record on paper for the last fifteen years puts me outside the system and when I did work I never popped the poverty line by any margin in fact I get more on SSI. Add in Medicaid which I need and the State refused to expand and other benefits I'm better off on SSI and working at Busking and such for cash to supplement off the books. That nets me something extra but not enough to survive on.

And lets see this is the case my lawyer made before the judge would you hire me if: I use a wheelchair, can't type more than 1 wpm due to hand nerve damage, can't handle stress of complex work and have some issues with remembering things and this proven over a decade and backed by doctors and the State vocational rehab office. Likely not. The last straight job I held was fronting for a telemarketing room a long time ago and that was repeating the same script over and over sending people to sales people for the minimum wage and a small bonus and work like that is gone.

But as a dedicated Idler and Slacker this is an ideal situation I can sit on my butt and get support, the way I live that money is more than enough as a base.

And personally why work if the government will give me a check, SNAP, Medicaid, a free cell phone and charities are happy to toss in aid if I really would rather not?

[lordie]

Cleric i work under the table too i couldn't stand being told what to do some of my bosses were stupid to say the least.

I wear braces on my legs and i have nerve damage . medicaid saved my life .

And

just so everyone knows no one makes much on ssi or ssd or welfare it is less than minium wage here in pa .sure i didn't like my ex getting rent for a year or anything else after he tried to raped me.but that is apple and oranges .

[panpareil]

Productive labor is like reducing your carbon footprint. Work is not about raising your own standard of living, just as reducing your carbon consumption is not about saving yourself money. Work is necessary to provide the material needs of others. By not providing the material needs of others you contribute to the scarcity of goods and the increase in the cost of living for the poor. Not working is like smoking in public, or driving an SUV. It actually hurts other people. And just as there is a point where we may not be able to save the planet if we reach a certain level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, if a enough people are not working for the benefit of others our economy, and our society will end as well.