Update On Counterfeit Ulcs

[Rev Dr Burnt Swamp]

SInce the topic is locked, please allow me to paste in the following
quote, and then further update it. **Please scroll to the bottom for
the updates so as to keep the integrity of the quotation unchanged**

THIS IS A PERSONAL MESSAGE WHICH MAY NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THIS WEBSITE

--QUOTE--

Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:14 AM
OK, Andre just sent his permission, so here it is in it's entirety.......
Sent by me-
Sir,
I am ordained through ULC and am writing for some clarification. When I
Google ULC, I receive several options, all claiming to be THE ULC. I
would like you to review the following list of sites and advise me which
sites are affiliated with your organization.
(NOTE- I have not included the questioned listings here in this post as they are all listed in Andre's answer.)

Andre's answer-
Robert,

I hope this will answer your questions.

The www.ulchq.com is our official site here in Modesto CA for the Universal Life Church Inc. International Headquarters. The www.ulc.net
is our authorized site operated a minister of our church Pastor Kevin
Andrews. It has been our authorized site for over 10 years.

The site www.ulchq.org
is not affiliated with our church. The Monastery owns that domain name
along with about 200 other domains with similar names to other churches
intended to confuse people.

The site www.ulcseminary.org is one by a minister of our church Rev. Amy Long for her ministry.

The site www.universalministries.com
is a separate organization in Milford IL operated by Rev. Doug Hickman.
He was a minister of our church and then created this organization. For
a while he was sending us ministers to be ordained in both churches
until he decided to separate from us.

The site www.spiritualhumanism.org
states it is in Pennsylvania. I am not sure who operates that site. I
do know that they stated they have purchased the Progressive Universal
Life Church (PULC) domain name, but they do not have the records from
them.

We are the ULC Headquarters here in Modesto CA. We are the original Church and our official website is www.ulchq.com. The only other ULC Headquarters authorized site is www.ulc.net and operated by Pastor Kevin Andrews in Folsom CA.
The
ULC Seminary is a site that is operated by a minister of our church for
her ministry. It is not an official ULC Headquarters site, but a known
site and we do have a good working relationship. She offers to accept
and forward to us ordination requests on her site to be ordained by our
church. The only ULC Headquarters item that she offers on her site is to
order an original Ministers certificate from us for those that request
it. All of the other items are from her.
The former ulc.org site was
started in 1995 by one of our ministers Brother Dan Zimmerman for his
congregation called Universal Life Church/ULC Monastery, Inc. in Tucson
AZ. He requested to be authorized to accept and forward to us ordination
requests received on his site to be ordained by our church. We granted
that authorization. In 2005 he asked one of his members to assist with
operating part of the site from Seattle WA. In 2006 they had an internal
management dispute that will take court legal action to resolve. So
Brother Dan did the responsible thing and closed the ulc.org site on
08/01/06. At that time our authorization to them was revoked. Since then
the part in Seattle has done a "hostile takeover" of the ulc.org site
and changed it to be themonastery.org and are calling themselves
Universal Life Church Monastery Storehouse, Inc. They are a separate
organization that is NOT AFFILIATED WITH US. They imply that they are in
order to confuse people into ordering from them. They have only been in
existence since 09/06 and they are back dating credentials to years
before they even started. Plus the ministers are receiving incorrect
certificates from a church that they were not even ordained by. If we
can be of further assistance please let us know.
Thank you,

Andre Hensley

--END QUOTE--

Now
I wish to add to, rather than rewrite, the above information. I have
been ordained since the late 60s, at a young age, before the digital
era, by the only ULC at the time - under the auspices of the original
founder, the beloved Rev/Bishop/Dr Kirby J. Hensley. It is sad to see
hucksterism and dishonesty cashing in on, and DELIBERATELY DECEIVING the
public through modern internet media. The above message is accurate
but unfortunately there's even more to add. The original, genuine, ONLY
REAL world headquarters, in Modesto is ulchq.com. **NOT
"ulcworldhq.com". Note the addition of the word "world" in the web
address. This bogus "Christian branch" calls itself Universal Life
Church World Headquarters "in Carrabelle, FL and Milwaukee, WI". The
counterfeit hq is also using ulcnetwork.com and
ulcministersnetwork.com. Who knows how many other fake domains are out
there? The reason this in particular deserves mention is the terrible
slanderous attacks made by these creepy-looking "Christians" against the
scrupulously honest and ethical bookstore here, the absolutely
above-board and professional seminary (please see "Who is the Original Universal Life Church" on youtube, which is helpful but not as specific as this post) and of course, the real hq
itself. This is so terribly unethical to find a deceptive duplicate
falsely attacking the honest outlets of the ULC that I had to say
something. I remember the joy of speaking to Rev K J Hensley on the
phone in the early 1970s and found him to be a true
social genius, a
down-to-earth, beautiful person who sincerely wanted to advance human
freedom, justice & love, and while I have breath I will not let
these attacks go unanswered if I am aware of them. If the "christian
ULC of FL & WI" wishes to conduct business ethically, all they need
to do is to stop trying to deceptively look like the actual ULC hq,
rename themselves, disclaim implied connections to the ULC headquarters
and to delete their scurrilous false attacks on our legitimate brothers
and sisters. Also worth noting is the webpage which I seen linked by
some of this site's web gurus,
http://www.universal-life-church-online.com/ whose truthfulness I can
vouch for.

For years, we have seen the real hq and
others say that the hijacking of ulc.org and the hostile Seattle
takeover will need court action if it is ever to be resolved. ***Has
there ever been any such action?*** This sad state of affairs is
getting long in the tooth.

PS What the heck does PINNED mean? Is it the same thing as 'locked'?

Edited February 16, 2013 by Rev Burnt Swamp

[Dorian Gray]

Pinned is not the same as locked. a pinned topic means that it stays (or is pinned) at the top of that particular forum sub section and does not fall down the sorting as it normally would based on date of last post. Locked means that it cannot be posted in further. A topic can be pinned, it can be locked, or it can be pinned and locked.

With regards to the "world hq" that has been discussed several times here on the forum. As for legal action, there really isnt much that the HQ in Modesto can do. It is no different then all of the Independent Catholic Church, Old Catholic Church, etc, etc, etc that are out there.

[Rev Dr Burnt Swamp]

Thanks for enlightening me. Regarding court action by that 's been mentioned by Andre and Amy, they've referred to what it would take is between the monastery and the original owner of ulc.org, Br Zimmerman. Zimmerman's former authorized site had a lot of very strange rambling writings on it but at least he sent for creds at the real hq. So it is the "hostile takeover" involving Seattle & Tucson that seems permanently unresolved unless litigated. I suspect Zimmerman is quite elderly now, if living, and probably not in the best of health, physically or financially, and some of the old online AZ papers have references to him having various legal problems on public record.

As far as hq itself (Andre, etc.) having options, it is ashame they can't take action on intent, that is, the deliberate intent by the "Christians" to deceive consumers AND do so while defaming the real hq. Anything they do unethically could wrongly smear the real hq by making it look like the Florida guys are hq, which they're not.

Historically, Dan Zimmerman & Kirby seemed to have attended a lot of court actions in the formative growth of the ULC, and won many, such as the 1974 recognition that allows us to legally use our doctor titles. I hope the current President & board would get some hot lawyers along the lines of the defamatory deception issue. It's a provable fact that there's only one world headquarters, and the fake one doesn't need to copy the exact name or to electronically publish provably false claims of illegitimacy against the authorized, established ministries like this one, which provide ministry products through hq, as well as their own products.

I go all the way back to the May 1969 week when both Time and Newsweek magazines featured ULC. The present day equivalent is, going viral online. The church has been attacked from the beginning, but one of the correct court rulings early on was that the 1st amendment is just as applicable for recently-established religious organizations as it is for ancient religions.

Let me apologize for bringing up a repeat subject, but the permanent, easy-to-access summary on the locked topic didn't have the additions I contributed so they could all be together in the same place. That was my objective. It's outrageous, the abuses that some people insist on using the name ULC for.

[Dorian Gray]

Swamp,

The cases our founder won, would be the very same cases that would be used by these other groups to validate their existence.

The Zimmerman/Freeman issue is a legal issue between a single church body's (ULC Monastery) internal corporate issue.

In this case, the new "International World Headquarter" is for a new and different organization with a similar name as "our" ULC. This is no different then the various break way groups of any other major religious group. Their claims aren't "false", misleading...that can be argued they are are muddying the waters that they are the same ULC founded by Kirby and not just an off shoot. Good luck proving that in court. None of their pages clearly state they are in fact the original Universal Life Church founded by Kirby Hensley.

[BpCorey]

geez, good thing I didnt start a catholic ULC like I was going to.

I was waiting until I made bishop before I did. now I am not sure if I want to go ahead with it. only reason I was even thinking about it was because I have ULC roots and was a ambassador. but I also see the catholic system would not fit into the ULC mold. I would need members to have some catholic knowledge before I would ordain, eaither hand on or via proxy.

Edited February 16, 2013 by BpCorey

[Dorian Gray]

Corey, I think there might be a, for lack of a better term, "market" for a ULC source of valid (even if irregular) line of apostolic succession, for those that value it.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Dorian Gray

[BpCorey]

Corey, I think there might be a, for lack of a better term, "market" for a ULC source of valid (even if irregular) line of apostolic succession, for those that value it.

I am not irregular. many of the people in my lines have been asked to come into the roman church. I was even asked a few times. but I declined because the roman church is not christ like anymore. plus I am a orthodox bishop, not roman anyways. pope benedict has gotten many independents back into the church. from lutherans to anglicans. many join up and many do not. I was afraid with a ULC church people would expect ordination without any training, as the other ULC churches do. kirby believed we are called by god and dont need training. which is sort of true, jesus ordained people without training, just by the laying on of hands. which is still used for ordination today.

[Dorian Gray]

Irregular might be a question of perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valid_but_irregular

[BpCorey]

Irregular might be a question of perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valid_but_irregular

ah, yeah I sometimes get it confused with illict.

[Dorian Gray]

That is a issue too LOL

[Bro. Hex]

I just want to say Thank You, "Rev Swampy" for bringing this topic back to the fore.
I like to refresh my memory from time to time as to the facts of our origins.
Like yourself, I was drawn to the Ministry of Kirby Hensley and his Universal Life Church

by those interview articles that appeared in Time and Newsweek way back in 1969.

[Dorian Gray]

Reading the Historical Kirby is great, and sometimes scary and at times sad. Reading about his support of a young Jim Jones and Jonestown...sigh...

[murphzlaw1]

Corey, I think there might be a, for lack of a better term, "market" for a ULC source of valid (even if irregular) line of apostolic succession, for those that value it.

I agree.

And, my personal perception is that the problem lies not that they are ULC sites, or even "non standard" ULC sites. It's that they are trying to make the claim that they are the "ONE TRUE ULC, ALL OTHERS ARE FAKE."

That's what irritates me.

If you did a Catholic ULC, and acknowledged your roots, for lack of better term, I can see NO reason why you wouldn't be welcomed with open arms.

[Dorian Gray]

I agree.

And, my personal perception is that the problem lies not that they are ULC sites, or even "non standard" ULC sites. It's that they are trying to make the claim that they are the "ONE TRUE ULC, ALL OTHERS ARE FAKE."

That's what irritates me.

If you did a Catholic ULC, and acknowledged your roots, for lack of better term, I can see NO reason why you wouldn't be welcomed with open arms.

+1

That is the biggest "problem" that most of the other groups have is that there is a lot of muddy water of "which ULC" is which. Which in turn goes back to my RCC, ICC, ICU, OCC, etc example.

[Bro. Hex]

Quote (BpCorey):

" ...the Roman church is not Christ-like anymore... plus I am an Orthodox bishop, not Roman"

I think I know what you are saying here Bp Corey, but I think I better ask... just in case.
What do YOU consider to be the difference between being Roman and being Orthodox?
I pretty well understand the Roman Church, but I am vague on the Orthodox.

Is the principal difference that the Roman Church has a Latin litany for its rituals

whereas the Orthodox use a Greek litany ??

Is there more ??

Edited February 18, 2013 by Bro. Hex

[BpCorey]

Quote (BpCorey):

" ...the Roman church is not Christ-like anymore... plus I am an Orthodox bishop, not Roman"

I think I know what you are saying here Bp Corey, but I think I better ask... just in case.

What do YOU consider to be the difference between being Roman and being Orthodox?

I pretty well understand the Roman Church, but I am vague on the Orthodox.

Is the principal difference that the Roman Church has a Latin litany for its rituals

whereas the Orthodox use a Greek litany ??

Is there more ??

acually, I think thier are 9 catholic popes. rome is just one.

mostly we are still old style ritual. none of this modern roman garbage.

no band or dancing girls. you dont stand up and clap when the priest finishes something. watch some pre vatican masses on youtube and you see what I mean.

I was hoping this roman pope would bring back solem ritual, but he is quiting because he is sick and feels he cant do a good job. first pope to quit since 1490

[Rev Dr Burnt Swamp]

Disclaimer: the following are personal views rather than anyone's "official views".

We are in agreement, Moderator Dorian/Murph. The "irritating thing" is the Monastery, the "network", the Other World Headquarters...claim sole legitimacy and then unnecessarily and falsely smear the original 1959-1962 Church. According to this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AUniversal_Life_Church/

and (ditto), followed by Archive_1,2 & 3, everybody involved in these controversies has a rap sheet a mile long. The discussion wore out some of Wikipedia's editors so bad, they retired.

The historical Kirby--At age 18, a friend of mine got a chance to use a long distance telephone account, when it used to be expensive. He said, "let's call the White House & ask for Nixon and tell him to get us the hell out of Vietnam and give him a piece of our minds about changing some unjust laws!" So we did. There were no answering machines or caller IDs back then. A real person answered the phone. She said he can't come to the phone right now. So I said, I got a ULC newspaper; let's call THIS number! And Kirby dropped whatever he was doing and talked to us for over an hour. He was the real deal, generous, earthy, sensible- a real American original. Man, he was as sick of organized religion as I was, and nicer than most "religious" people. He was all about freedom. He was gracious, kind and fascinating to young, interested people, in my experience. I loved him for saying the Bible will hold you back. Just that statement's worth a donation, right there. It was OK for him to smoke cigars & drink whiskey. He emphasized helping others & not harming anybody. He really was one of the coolest Americans. I told Andre this story about 7 years ago when I wrote for a letter of good standing, required in my state. And I gave hq a donation for all those years of free service.

I didn't know Kirby supported Jim Jones, but that's consistent with his workin' the 1st Amendment. - before Jones hurt anyone. As retired big-time California politician Willie Brown said, "If we knew then he was mad, clearly we wouldn't have appeared with him."

I'd been working so much that I didn't get a regular chance to keep up on the various ULC splits. Things degenerated since I last checked. I knew the monastery's problems but didn't know they now got their own breakaways that are even sleazier than they are. I think it is wise for hq to just have ulc.net and the seminary, 2 unfailingly ethical outlets. My (*personal only*) observations are Zimmerman may have been Kirby's right hand man for a while, but before he was fired by the star wars wack job, he was definitely unstable. A more interesting associate of KJH was the late Lewis Ashmore.

In conclusion, it is very sad and disappointing to note the level of ethics in the Seattle and Florida "ULCs" and their hostility to the founding church, and their deceptiveness. But it's about right for hq to stick with who we got, especially if they can't do their own website. There is one thing regrettable to me. If you wanna call me a geezer for my interest in history, fine. That one thing is there's no known archive of all the 1960s and 1970s ULC newspapers like I used to get in the mail - Kirby's presidential campaigns (very progressive), and all the wild and fun ads & everything in there. I still have a couple, but I foolishly gave several away to try to spread the word of freedom. I said I wanted them back but I got ripped off. I think I still have one that says, "We just invented our own flag!"

The diversity of thought would never bother old Kirby. I do think he'd be as disappointed as me with the low level of sleaze that some people taken his vision of freedom down to. Thank you for reading, if you got this far!

[RevJohnG]

This is great! Thanks for all the nostalgia you have for the ULC.

Fact: The ULC Monastery is run out of a UPS Store in Seattle. I wonder how many people know this? Just sad.

Many many sources for this from Google.

To be honest, and I'm not attacking Rev. Amy Long personally but the ULC Seminary is a strange site with overpriced items/courses, etc.

Pax

Edited February 19, 2013 by RevJohnG

[mererdog]

The diversity of thought would never bother old Kirby. I do think he'd be as disappointed as me with the low level of sleaze that some people taken his vision of freedom down to.

I suspect he'd have found it hilarious.

[BpCorey]

This is great! Thanks for all the nostalgia you have for the ULC.

Fact: The ULC Monastery is run out of a UPS Store in Seattle. I wonder how many people know this? Just sad.

Many many sources for this from Google.

To be honest, and I'm not attacking Rev. Amy Long personally but the ULC Seminary is a strange site with overpriced items/courses, etc.

Pax

when I was a ULC ambassador in the 80's I ran my church from a closet.

it was a walkin thou.