What Level Of Responsibility Does Christianity Hold For The Dark Ages?

[Zequatanil]

Ofcourse he DID apologize to the Jews!! If you read the whole article--the Jews did respond! I just didn`t post the whole thing!!

Did the USA apologize to Japan??--for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?The consequences are still apparent today--War is war--whether then or now, not only Jews that suffered or are suffering.

Peace

S

Edited July 12, 2012 by sarkany

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Bingo, Jonathan, bingo!

Thank you. While I am in my current mood -- The Roman Catholic Church has specific rules for forgiveness of sin. It requires full confession. No confession -- no forgiveness. By the rules of the confessional, it is only the sins that are confessed that can be forgiven. "Oops, I did things that I should not have" -- doesn't do the job. Hinting at specific crimes also doesn't cut it -- even if the specifics can be "infered." (The Crusades)

Only when these conditions are met -- in full -- is the confession considered an indication of true contrition -- by the Church.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Zequatanil]

True-- as dogma. However what do you do once the act has been committed?? Then no apology is necessary for anything--if that is the way you want to view it. Ooops--how many times the past 10 years has the U.S apologized for co-lateral damage to people? It is not necessary then -why do it.

Peace,

S

Edited July 12, 2012 by sarkany

[Cornelius]

I think the simple fact that Jesus and the apostles were Jews is enough to dispel any idea that there was any Nazi belief in Christianity.

That is why they claimed he was not a jew but an aryan silly. Similar to the Christian identity movement today who claim that abraham was white and the ten lost tribes are the europeans.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Ofcourse he DID apologize to the Jews!! If you read the whole article--the Jews did respond! I just didn`t post the whole thing!!

Did the USA apologize to Japan??--for Hiroshima and Nagasaki?The consequences are still apparent today--War is war--whether then or now, not only Jews that suffered or are suffering.

Peace

S

I didn't need your article. I remember my outrage at the time, that the Pope was appologising to God instead of "us." And even then, leaving out the details.

I am well aware of the American crimes against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The American government does not pretend to be seated in the Throne of St. Peter -- for all time -- as the conscience of the world.

If the RCC wants to claim that position, they have other standards to live up to. They could start by following their own rules for confession. Note -- their own rules.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

True-- as dogma. However what do you do once the act has been committed?? Then no apology is necessary for anything--if that is the way you want to view it. Ooops--how many times the past 10 years has the U.S apologized for co-lateral damage to people? It is not necessary then -why do it.

Peace,

S

If the church ever does decide to follow their rules for confession, contrition and pennance in this regard -- I'll deal with it. Really, what are the odds that I will live long enough to see it?

It took them 500 years to appologise -- sort of -- to Gallileo.

The current Pope is not in an appologetic mood. Just a few years ago, he stated that, only the Catholic Church has Appostolic Succession. All the other churches are mearly "ecclesiastic communities." Clearly, the opinion of outsiders means nothing to him.

[panpareil]

So far, all the complaints here have been from the crusades onward. None of it has anything to do with the Dark Ages which ended before the crusades. The Dark Ages ended in 1000AD.

Is this a discussion of the Dark Ages or, just another why I hate Christianity or Catholics or the Pope thread?

That is why they claimed he was not a jew but an Aryan silly. Similar to the Christian identity movement today who claim that Abraham was white and the ten lost tribes are the Europeans.

The religion of the Nazis was Naziism. They co-opted any symbols that would work for their creation of pure Aryan nation even an antisemitic Christ or original sin of racial degeneration. If anything they were Gnostics.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

So far, all the complaints here have been from the crusades onward. None of it has anything to do with the Dark Ages which ended before the crusades. The Dark Ages ended in 1000AD.

Is this a discussion of the Dark Ages or, just another why I hate Christianity or Catholics or the Pope thread?

The religion of the Nazis was Naziism. They co-opted any symbols that would work for their creation of pure Aryan nation even an antisemitic Christ or original sin of racial degeneration. If anything they were Gnostics.

Is there a specific aspect of the Dark Ages that you would care to focus on?

[simplicitys-brother]

The current Pope is not in an appologetic mood. Just a few years ago, he stated that, only the Catholic Church has Appostolic Succession. All the other churches are mearly "ecclesiastic communities." Clearly, the opinion of outsiders means nothing to him.

Should he ever wish to cosider the thoughts of others? He is, after all, the Pope of the Cathlics. As a Libertarian I have no interest in the thoughts of leftists moochers or conservaive mandaters for any reason except to have something to refute.

Are you likely to change your mind because someone tells you something you don't believe?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Should he ever wish to cosider the thoughts of others? He is, after all, the Pope of the Cathlics. As a Libertarian I have no interest in the thoughts of leftists moochers or conservaive mandaters for any reason except to have something to refute.

Are you likely to change your mind because someone tells you something you don't believe?

You seem to be addressing this to me. I'm not clear on what you are asking. Perhaps you could rephrase?

[simplicitys-brother]

What I am saying is that the Pope is Catholic, He has no reason to listen to the leaders of other faiths in determining his actions re: the Catholic church.

You had said: Jonathan H. B. Lobl, on 12 July 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

The current Pope is not in an appologetic mood. Just a few years ago, he stated that, only the Catholic Church has Appostolic Succession. All the other churches are mearly "ecclesiastic communities." Clearly, the opinion of outsiders means nothing to him.

And my response is that he has no reason to be in an appologetic mood. Followed by questions should you choose to answer them.

[Ex Nihilo]

I never really got the point of apologizing for the actions of others. Seems like a very hollow gesture...but if it makes folks feel good....

[Fawzo]

I never really got the point of apologizing for the actions of others. Seems like a very hollow gesture...but if it makes folks feel good....

Hmmm seems like some guy named Jesus is very famous for doing this exact same thing only in a more dramatic fashion but it makes people feel good so

[Zequatanil]

Hmmm seems like some guy named Jesus is very famous for doing this exact same thing only in a more dramatic fashion but it makes people feel good so

Yes Jesus did--but why? Wasn`t it to show us that we have to forgive each other as God forgives us.

peace,

S

[Ex Nihilo]

Hmmm seems like some guy named Jesus is very famous for doing this exact same thing only in a more dramatic fashion but it makes people feel good so

Jesus didn't say he was sorry for the sins of the whole world, he took upon himself the punishment of sin, overcame death, and opened the door to eternal life to all mankind. I think there's a big difference between sayin"my bad" for things you didn't do to people you don't know and atoning for the world's sins through personal sacrifice. Now if the pope was going to stand trial for all the past crimes of catholics and take on te sentence they deserve, that's not empty that has a real consequence to it.

[Zequatanil]

Jesus didn't say he was sorry for the sins of the whole world, he took upon himself the punishment of sin, overcame death, and opened the door to eternal life to all mankind. I think there's a big difference between sayin"my bad" for things you didn't do to people you don't know and atoning for the world's sins through personal sacrifice.

Edited July 14, 2012 by sarkany

[Fawzo]

Jesus didn't say he was sorry for the sins of the whole world, he took upon himself the punishment of sin, overcame death, and opened the door to eternal life to all mankind. I think there's a big difference between sayin"my bad" for things you didn't do to people you don't know and atoning for the world's sins through personal sacrifice. Now if the pope was going to stand trial for all the past crimes of catholics and take on te sentence they deserve, that's not empty that has a real consequence to it.

I highly doubt that one being being tortured and crucified for a few hours could atone for even a very small portion of the sins of the world. Many people have died much more excruciating deaths. Some deaths like scaphism (http://voices.yahoo.com/the-five-most-painful-execution-methods-history-2930808.html) make crucifixion look like a picnic.

How does maybe an hour of torture and 6 hours of crucifixion even remotely make full atonement for the totality of sins of mankind. I doubt if such a death would even pay the compensatory Biblical price for the sins of mankind for ONE DAY?!?!?!

[Dorian Gray]

They weren't God?

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I highly doubt that one being being tortured and crucified for a few hours could atone for even a very small portion of the sins of the world. Many people have died much more excruciating deaths. Some deaths like scaphism (http://voices.yahoo....ry-2930808.html) make crucifixion look like a picnic.

How does maybe an hour of torture and 6 hours of crucifixion even remotely make full atonement for the totality of sins of mankind. I doubt if such a death would even pay the compensatory Biblical price for the sins of mankind for ONE DAY?!?!?!

This might sound a little odd coming from me. Still, you asked.

Most people who suffer such a death do not do so voluntarily. If someone does undertake such a death -- of his own free will -- with fully developed Christ Consciousness -- and true awareness of the interconectedness of all things.........

Well, there would be a lot more involved in such a death than suffering.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Bro. Hex]

They weren't God?

We are, all of us, each of us...God...

The crucifier as well as the crucified... the redeemer as well as the redeemed.

This might sound a little odd coming from me. Still, you asked.

Most people who suffer such a death do not do so voluntarily. If someone does undertake such a death -- of his own free will -- with fully developed Christ Consciousness -- and true awareness of the interconectedness of all things.........

Well, there would be a lot more involved in such a death than suffering.

No, Jon, it doesn't sound funny at all "coming from you". Christ-Consciousness knows no boundaries, recognizes no labels or denominations. infuses every true pathway to divinity. Edited July 15, 2012 by Bro. Hex