'do Onto Others' In Judaism

[Hyper Real]

In Judaism we can read certain laws apply only to Jews or only to gentiles while certain acts can only be validly committed between Jews or only validly between a Jew and a gentile.

How, if at all, does this rhyme with the 'Do onto others' credo?

Would we conclude correctly that the 'Do onto others' simply does not apply to Judaism?

[RabbiO]

In Judaism we can read certain laws apply only to Jews or only to gentiles while certain acts can only be validly committed between Jews or only validly between a Jew and a gentile.

How, if at all, does this rhyme with the 'Do onto others' credo?

Would we conclude correctly that the 'Do onto others' simply does not apply to Judaism?

For a change I'll let the other Jewish members on the forum answer before I post a response.

I'm presuming, of course, that I'm not the only one left who identifies as such.

[Kingfisher]

Boy is hot today! Deer-flies are out. Big storm coming up this evening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zdTxrCJ1mc

Edited May 26, 2011 by Kingfisher

[RabbiO]

Boy is hot today! Deer-flies are out. Big storm coming up this evening...

I hear Maine is lovely this time of the year.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

For a change I'll let the other Jewish members on the forum answer before I post a response.

I'm presuming, of course, that I'm not the only one left who identifies as such.

Hello Rabbio. While I'm not at all clear that my views are in harmony with Judaism -- yes, I'm still a Jew.

Now to the question. Since the question was blunt, I will be blunt. By what ever name we call them -- Hebrew Scrptures, Tanach, Torah, etc -- they are the Jewish Scriptures. What the Jews do with these scriptures is an internal matter for the Jews alone. Nobody else gets a vote.

On the other hand, if we are speaking of the Christian Bible -- in particular, the Old Testament -- This is a Christian problem. The Christians hijacked these scriptures 2,000 years ago. If the Christian world has O.T. questions, they must find their own answers. If Non-Christian gentiles have O.T. questions, they should consult Christian clergy.

[Kingfisher]

I hear Maine is lovely this time of the year.

Ayuh. Lovely folk in Monson. Better than dragging cannon through the swamps.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I have never been to Maine. I do like bluberries.

[Kingfisher]

I have never been to Maine. I do like bluberries.

"Ah, brother Sanop, what bad news you speak!

Why steals the tear adown thy sombre cheek?

Why heaves thy breast with such tremendous sighs?

And why despair dart horror from thy eyes?

Has the Great Spirit from the world above

Called home your chief, the object of your love?

Ah, yes! too well I know his spirit's fled;

Too well I know your Orono is dead.

Each warrior Sanop now unbends his bow,

While grief and sorrow brood upon his brow;

Each manly youth reclines his head and cries,

'In Orono our friend and chieftain dies.'

Each young pappoose to sympathy is bred,

And shrieking, whoops, ' your Orono is dead.'

Each sombre face in pallid hue appears,

And each his grief in death-like silence bears.

The great Penobscot rolls his current on,

And silently bemoans his oldest son.

A century past, the object of his care,

He fed and clothed him with his fish and fur;

But now, alas! he views his shores in vain,

To find another Orono in man.

For whiter Indians, to our shame we see,

Are not so virtuous nor humane as he.

Disdaining all the savage modes of life,

The tomahawk and bloody scalping-knife,

He sought to civilize his tawny race,

Till death, great Nimrod of the human race,

Hit on his track, and gave this hunter chase.

His belt and wampum now aside are flung,

His pipe extinguished and his bow unstrung.

When countless moons their destined rounds shall cease,

He'll spend an endless calumet of peace.

The Hon. Martin Kinsley, on occasion of the death of Chief Orono.

"Safe lodged within his blanket, here below,

Lie the last relics of old Orono;

Worn down with toil and care, he in a trice

Exchanged his wigwam for a paradise."

Now you've been there a little. Sorry, all my photos are hard copy.

PS - The best blueberries are on the mountaintops. Watch your step, and don't forget to leave some for the bears.

[Kingfisher]

I've got an interesting family tree. A Russian general, a lady-in waiting to the Tsarina, a Scottish laird and a French princess (shhhh), German peasants, Brooklyn Yiddish... I don't know about Jewish, but you could call me a Jacobite! Oi gevald!

[Dan56]

In Judaism we can read certain laws apply only to Jews or only to gentiles while certain acts can only be validly committed between Jews or only validly between a Jew and a gentile.

How, if at all, does this rhyme with the 'Do onto others' credo?

Would we conclude correctly that the 'Do onto others' simply does not apply to Judaism?

"You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19:18 & Torah)

"The stranger who sojourns with you shall be as a native from among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord, your God." (Leviticus 19:34)

[Kingfisher]

Sorry, all my photos are hard copy.

So, here's a few of the storm...

A rotating binary set of low pressure systems full of warm, moist air from the Gulf thundered up the Appalachians tonight from Georgia to Maine. The whole trail got hit at once. It was funneled narrowly between two cooler high pressure systems, one battering the mountains from the Atlantic and another massive one perched over Canada. There was a 12-20mbar variation across the peaks, so it was some pretty freakin' awesome weather deep in the Mohawk Valley, although it is rough on the old bones.

The first cell got stretched out SE-NW, scraping up the Catskills before striking the Adirondacks just to the north around 2230EDT, where the lower elevations allowed it to be thrown east and crushed into the Greens and Whites. That's no moon...

Night/day double exposure (I'm on that digital heart-beat, they try to copy my swagger...) just clipping a bolt tendril in the NW corner of the "eye".

The second, more tropical, wing flared out and swept in crossways about an hour later... lots of high wind and spray! Ahh, Monsoon. Looks like nothing but blue skies up above!! Barak! Khazâd ai-mênu!! Hey, does that sound like a wave? (That's a Rapture joke, son.)

Unfortunately the power in my camera gave out before the real light show began and I could catch the best ones. I think I burned one onto my retinas, but there were some nice trailing bolts that would have made good prints. Hope everyone came through all right. Fireflies will be along soon.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Kingfisher

[Hyper Real]

"You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19:18 & Torah)

"The stranger who sojourns with you shall be as a native from among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord, your God." (Leviticus 19:34)

Thank you for your comments Dan54.

[Brother Michael Sky]

Hello Rabbio. While I'm not at all clear that my views are in harmony with Judaism -- yes, I'm still a Jew.

Now to the question. Since the question was blunt, I will be blunt. By what ever name we call them -- Hebrew Scrptures, Tanach, Torah, etc -- they are the Jewish Scriptures. What the Jews do with these scriptures is an internal matter for the Jews alone. Nobody else gets a vote.

On the other hand, if we are speaking of the Christian Bible -- in particular, the Old Testament -- This is a Christian problem. The Christians hijacked these scriptures 2,000 years ago. If the Christian world has O.T. questions, they must find their own answers. If Non-Christian gentiles have O.T. questions, they should consult Christian clergy.

I thoroughly appreciate your post for it's accuracy, but I wonder at your last two sentences - and the point of such a practice....

and the last sentence confuses me ( I know - not terribly hard to do...)Why on earth should they go to Christian clergy - who have either no, or very little understanding, of what the words are meant to convey??

Thank you for your comments Dan54.

Paul wrote a bit about relating to non-Jews as well....

[Brother Michael Sky]

Now you've been there a little. Sorry, all my photos are hard copy.

I spent quite a bit of time in Belfast and Brooks...

I simply LOVE Maine, and if it were not for my son's mother's family here - I would be there now...

I simply LOVE watching the lil porcupines waddling around the yard at night !!! They are some of the Cutest animals when you see them in person...

However I was scared witless by the size of a full grown moose..... Thought I'd stumbled into a dinosaur in the woods! ( for a second, it was so huge - and I'm no small guy )

[Hyper Real]

Paul wrote a bit about relating to non-Jews as well....

Indeed, there are many writings abut equal treatment. However many of those writings are not in the Jewish canon.

It appears that many do not want to discuss this topic.

Perhaps they feel the topic is designed to antagonize. This is not the case.

I believe that those who have religious convictions should not feel threatened by questions about their religion, unless, perhaps, they fear the answers.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

I thoroughly appreciate your post for it's accuracy, but I wonder at your last two sentences - and the point of such a practice....

and the last sentence confuses me ( I know - not terribly hard to do...)Why on earth should they go to Christian clergy - who have either no, or very little understanding, of what the words are meant to convey??

I'm not sure of what you are asking. Please rephrase so that I can be sure of the question. In the meantime, I will give it a shot. Let me know if this answeres what you are asking.

I regard the Hebrew Scriptures -- even translated into English -- by Jewish publishers, to be radicly different than English translation of the O.T.

In very small things, the translation is forced to carry a mountain of theology and invisible assumptions. Consider the opening lines of Genesis from the King James translation. We find the word "Spirit." Spirit takes a capital "S." The Trinity is implied. In the Jewish translation, the same word is translated as "wind." The original word is "ruach."

This is something that Christians do. They read the Old Testament, and then insist that Jews explain it. Judaism is not responsible for the O.T. Only it's own scriptures -- which, I repeat -- were hijacked and transformed.

[Kingfisher]

It appears that many do not want to discuss this topic.

Pilpalta b’chochmah? Havanta davar mitoch davar?

[Pete]

Pilpalta b'chochmah? Havanta davar mitoch davar?

I think your point has been excellently discussed by Dan. The other thing to note is that many Jews like Rabbio are lovely people to both Jews and Gentiles. That for me answers all I need to know about the topic.

Beyond that I think Kingfisher has made the point and I believe it is worth a second look.

Kingfisher's comment "Pilpalta b'chochmah? Havanta davar mitoch davar?"

Were one's questions made in heaven and seeking deeper wisdom?

[Brother Michael Sky]

I'm not sure of what you are asking. Please rephrase so that I can be sure of the question. In the meantime, I will give it a shot. Let me know if this answeres what you are asking.

I regard the Hebrew Scriptures -- even translated into English -- by Jewish publishers, to be radicly different than English translation of the O.T.

In very small things, the translation is forced to carry a mountain of theology and invisible assumptions. Consider the opening lines of Genesis from the King James translation. We find the word "Spirit." Spirit takes a capital "S." The Trinity is implied. In the Jewish translation, the same word is translated as "wind." The original word is "ruach."

This is something that Christians do. They read the Old Testament, and then insist that Jews explain it. Judaism is not responsible for the O.T. Only it's own scriptures -- which, I repeat -- were hijacked and transformed.

You are stomping all over my point and not noticing it......

I have described - fairly thoroughly - the complicated understanding of the Torah which is possessed by the Jews....

Why on Earth would a person, who is not Christian, go to Grimm's Fairy Tales, when there is the opportunity to acquire a VALID understanding of the Book one is stealing.......

because the Christian understanding of the Old Testament is little better than Grimm's Fairy Tales.... The emphasis gets put in all the wrong places, The message is changed by the misunderstanding of terms, and there is a basic misunderstanding of what it all MEANS.....

So why should a person, who is not Christian, reach for a CHRISTIAN understanding of a Jewish Historical and Religious Text?

We confuse personal opinion and preferred understanding with freedom on this forum quite frequently....

Freedom is education - because it strips from us the ridiculous knee jerk reactions which we don't even realize plague us... ignorance is ignorance - no matter how pretty you paint it's face...

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

You are stomping all over my point and not noticing it......

I have described - fairly thoroughly - the complicated understanding of the Torah which is possessed by the Jews....

Why on Earth would a person, who is not Christian, go to Grimm's Fairy Tales, when there is the opportunity to acquire a VALID understanding of the Book one is stealing.......

because the Christian understanding of the Old Testament is little better than Grimm's Fairy Tales.... The emphasis gets put in all the wrong places, The message is changed by the misunderstanding of terms, and there is a basic misunderstanding of what it all MEANS.....

So why should a person, who is not Christian, reach for a CHRISTIAN understanding of a Jewish Historical and Religious Text?

We confuse personal opinion and preferred understanding with freedom on this forum quite frequently....

Freedom is education - because it strips from us the ridiculous knee jerk reactions which we don't even realize plague us... ignorance is ignorance - no matter how pretty you paint it's face...

I thought the position I had taken might be too extream.......

Your logic, at least here, is undefeatable. I agree with you.