Church Armories

[Raven's Trikes]

Church Armories

I've got more questions than I could possibly list now but for starters the idea came to me when I began planning a day trip out to my brother in laws property so that me and my city slicker friends could fire off guns (legally registered) on private property without the hassles of expensive ranges. Not to mention, I'm trying (secretly) to convince him to join us and allow us to make future field trips to the mountains.

Then others wanted to come along, including those who would not be old enough or otherwise able to own a gun...

Now I suppose that on private property a child can shoot a gun under adult supervision? What about a prior felon? Again, I'm talking about many acres of privately owned mountain property?

Aside from being under lock and key, what are the restrictions for a organization keeping an armory?

Can a church own guns in its name or do they have to be registered to individuals?

I'm having a hard time getting straight answers.

l appreciate any guidance...

[Fawzo]

A Church with guns reminds me of vice squads with hookers!

[mdtaylor]

First, a felon cannot be in possession of a weapon, period. That's possession, not own.

Second, the only time an entity other than an individual can be the registered owner of a gun is when that entity is a federally licensed firearms dealer. Otherwise, the sale must happen to an individual.

Now, having said that, if a STATE has registration requirements other than the Form 4473 required by the feds for the sale of a firearm, and it is called a registration, then other states rules may apply. The above only applies to the federal requirements of the sale of a firearm.

[Raven's Trikes]

A Church with guns reminds me of vice squads with hookers!

yeah, I thought of that, but the vice squad with hookers idea was already taken...

[Raven's Trikes]

First, a felon cannot be in possession of a weapon, period. That's possession, not own.

Second, the only time an entity other than an individual can be the registered owner of a gun is when that entity is a federally licensed firearms dealer. Otherwise, the sale must happen to an individual.

Now, having said that, if a STATE has registration requirements other than the Form 4473 required by the feds for the sale of a firearm, and it is called a registration, then other states rules may apply. The above only applies to the federal requirements of the sale of a firearm.

Thank you for your answers, taken seriously. It seems clear enough that a felon cannot handle a gun. I don't own a gun myself so I don't know all this. In Maryland a child over twelve can hunt with their parents. There is a wonderful pond to go fishing in( excepting the snapper turtles) and plenty of trial;s to hike, so no worry.: ) plenty to do...

[Raven's Trikes]

If theres no other objections, then I guess I can go ahead with this.

[Samuron]

If theres no other objections, then I guess I can go ahead with this.

Hmm, lessee; non-mainstream church, remote area, stockpiled armory, kids, felons.

I think there was something like that in Waco, Texas, a few years back, but I'm not sure if it made the news.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Samuron

[remove]

To do it under ULC, I think you would need more aproval than your fellow board members.

Wow, I have a hard time imagining religious guns.

[Raven's Trikes]

Our situation is entirely different than Waco, or Ruby Ridge, or MOVE or whatever; and it has nothing to do with “religious guns”. I did some research into those groups and what I call “religious disasters”.

The main part of my question in the original post was “Aside from being under lock and key, what are the restrictions for a organization keeping an armory?”

Theres a reason why the Wells Fargo trucks are armor plated and the guys who carry the money are armed. They are just there to do a job, not to police or judge or enforce, and the money they carry isn't theirs; but if they weren't armed, people would rob them everyday...so I guess its about having something people want and wanting to protect it.

Edited to add: that the B.U.C. is, and has always been in full cooperation with all Federal, State, and Local authorities.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Ravenstrikes

[Samuron]

Our situation is entirely different than Waco, or Ruby Ridge, or MOVE or whatever; and it has nothing to do with “religious guns”. I did some research into those groups and what I call “religious disasters”.

The main part of my question in the original post was “Aside from being under lock and key, what are the restrictions for a organization keeping an armory?”

Theres a reason why the Wells Fargo trucks are armor plated and the guys who carry the money are armed. They are just there to do a job, not to police or judge or enforce, and the money they carry isn't theirs; but if they weren't armed, people would rob them everyday...so I guess its about having something people want and wanting to protect it.

Edited to add: that the B.U.C. is, and has always been in full cooperation with all Federal, State, and Local authorities.

My intended point is that if you start an armory on a church property, you will probably attract attention, and it will probably not be the kind you want.

Just my $.02

[remove]

The best thing for you to do is talk with your state and county offices. There may be fees, a certain type of storage unit, how many weapons be stored, what type of weapons, what type of liablities are involve, insurances, etc. Make you decission from that starting point. That is the best I can offer right now.

[revjerry]

Plan on having at least 2 or 3 gazillion dollars in liability insurance and a big name law firm on retainer.

[mdtaylor]

Can a church own guns in its name or do they have to be registered to individuals?

I don't recall seeing anything in any of the amendments of the Constitution that guarantee any rights to organizations. Only to individuals.

[mark 45]

and why does a church need an armory?that one still escapes me.

[mdtaylor]

and why does a church need an armory?that one still escapes me.

Same reason I need/want one. Fear of a government more powerful than the people. The difference is, as an individual I have a right to do that. As an organization that right does not exist.

[RevJohnBlevins]

Is there a "church" on the property?..next..Is there a "pastor residence" on the property?...Need more input to answer parts of the question(s).

As stated above, in prior post(s), no felons can do. That's the law. (unless you all want to see a jail up close)

And for letting a child shoot a gun there are no requirements on age. It's up to a responsible adult, who can legally own/possess a firearm, to decide if said child may shoot. No law against that one that I am aware of. I know of children shooting as young as 6. (under strict supervision)

I own a dozen firearms legally and will keep them on the church property, in my residence, as it will be my "home"...rental or not. You can have, and/or possess, firearms in your own "home". (as long as you can legally own them by law) Now, with that stated, I live in Ohio and am not qualified nor licenced to practice law. Your laws may be different where you live. I just know my rights.

Best regards,

John

[Fr_Chuck]

There is a issue, I know here in GA even with a carry permit you are not allowed to carry a gun on to church property, ( simular to school property) ** I understand they were trying to change that last year.

And not sure why you want to keep the guns on "church" property, do you think that gives them some extra level of protection ???

But a felon can not even be with access to a gun. if for example a felons wife wanted to own one, it would have to be locked away in the house away from the felon

so if you had one just laying around where the felon was within reach of it, it could make them in violation

But if they have one in thier hands, even if unloaded, it is a crime.

I have a family member who had a unloaded ( and it was rusted shut so you could not load it) and it was hanging on the wall. The local police turned it over to the Feds, and he is now doing five years for that gun on the wall

[Raven's Trikes]

let me clear a few things up.

the guns came, or most of the guns anyway, came as a result of an inheritance...but its not the kind of inheritance we really wanted. The brother of one of the board members killed himself using one of those guns. Not pleasant I know, but lets just get this out in the open. There a two properties associated with (but not owned by) the church, that being the Baltimore Universal Church.

One property, the one I reside in, operates as a boarding house as well as the official office. The other property is a multi-use facility which has two apartments, a number of rented garages (the B.U.C rents two), a basement which me and Dale, the owner, fixed up to have a pool table, kitchen et, and powder room, and it is also a licensed Day Care facility, although that is separate from the Church.

The "armory" of over 40 guns included antiques and guns that are not in firing condition. on the other hand, it also includes some serious guns. Our beloved Bobby was an avid gun collector; its such a shame he got hooked on prescription pills and just got depressed. He had shot a hole through his roof a year before, and Dale, his brother and board member with the B.U.C. had to help patch the hole.

[mpi]

with the exception of the felon in possession part, mdtaylor's statement about gun laws is incorrect. organizations CAN own guns. as a matter of fact a trust or corporation is the easiest way to own some classes of firearms.

[mdtaylor]

with the exception of the felon in possession part, mdtaylor's statement about gun laws is incorrect. organizations CAN own guns. as a matter of fact a trust or corporation is the easiest way to own some classes of firearms.

I didn't realize that. I'll have to look into it some more. My statement was, of course, based on my memory where I do not remember any spot on the 4473 where you can put an organizations name as opposed to an individuals. I do realize that once an individual is cleared by the FBI using the 4473, the firearm can usually be sold to anyone, or any organization, in a private sale occurring solely within the state.

Bears more checking into.