Youch

Glad you guys are in agreement. But that's not what I've been trying to say. Or ask. Over time, humans are more aware of lots of things, most things perhaps. This is obvious and I'm not disputing it. But what evidence is there that self-awareness has changed our nature or behavior? If it is such "common sense" then surely we could be talking about specific examples??

While you pretend to ignore me: Really? You've not shown any evidence that the aggregate human is rife or prone to blame others for their actions, or that anything has recently changed in this regard. Do you have evolutionary evidence? Statistics? What evidence do you have of this so-called "new" development? What has caused this "new" development? What evidence do you have of this so-called "new" development? What has caused this "new" development? Yeah, yeah, I know you pretend to ignore me.....but you cannot. Nor can you answer my questions. Right?? Please prove me wrong. Look, I'm just trying to advance the conversation. I ask my questions with honest intent. As always.

You are repeating what I have said previously in this thread. This is a good thing.

While nobody else will acknowledge these wise and relevent quotes, I will do so by echoing them. Kodos to the OP, and MEGA-KUDOS to the brilliant men who first coined these truisms.

I am only pointing out that this new found "darkness" of man isn't. It isn't new, and nature isn't dark. We only have more ways of talking about it. But hey, this is JUST my own opinion. The opinion of others may be just as valid or real. There are different ways of looking at things, of course...

Well, that is my point.....that hoping/wishing human nature is/was something other than what it is, is a fantasy. A "concept?" Well, perhaps....a fictional one, of course. This also refers to the "world peace" thread. Nature is not peaceful. He has no evidence that humans are evolving in any different direction.

I wish. No, it's hypothetical. I was listening to a group of people (employees) asking each other, "would you do X, or would you do Y," etc..., in jest with each other, of course. My sensibilities are such that the list of things I would not do is rather long. But I ask myself, okay, then what would I do? It's a hard question to answer, really.

What would you do for a million dollars????? Perhaps the better question is, what would you NOT do for a million dollars? This question is regarding morals, ethics, societal normals, personal preferences and levels of desperation. What would you do, and what would you not do??? Answer the question(s) any way you want, but please explain when doing so......

I miss her movies....

Mongo the Peregrin Falcon has returned, leaving feathers of victims all over the place (my fault, as my many feeders lure as bait items of his fixations). As has a huge assortment of song birds, and about a dozen other annual winged visitors to my yard. Ralph the squirrel, missing a chuck or ear from previous mating, is back. As are his progeny. I have a love/hate relationship with squirrels!! Several types of tomatos seedlings are now in their pots. As are strawberries, basil and parsely. And of course the perennial blueberry, lilac, and a variety of perenial flowers that we potted years ago and never disappoint. New this year are pickling cucumbers, anxious for the canning process, a new thing for us. And of course the greenbelt behind our home is now lush and full of activity. Also it hides our own activity, which is missed in the winter when it is barren. Bees are about. Always love when bees are about. They are among my favorite creatures...

Buckle

Exactamundo!! We remain animals. And our evolutionary path thus far has not "cleansed" us in the least, IMO. Then again, there is strong evidence that human males have recently evolved to be more feminized, so perhaps I am wrong about how our perceptions (now with intense media) will alter the arc of our path. Perhaps that was his point? I was trying to explore this with him, but he did not want scrutiny, so it's hard to tell now. Evolution takes in environmentals, and 24/7 media coveragemust alter our nature and course. I think wise men have always known the nature of himself. The good, the bad and the ugly. I think most humans are "infested" with the whole array of natural instincts. To suggest this includes "darkness" is incorrect, IMO. Instinctive, natural, animal behavior cannot be "dark." To think so is, to me, self loathing; it is to not like our own nature or species, and suggests that we must somehow "change," i.e., to become artificial. I asked earlier, perhaps feebly, about what possbile change agent might it be to cause this artificiality, and perhaps I offended by this examination. I have long posted on this forum that we now live outside the natural world to a growing degree (one of my favorite topics here, actually with many implications) and of course this is impacting our evolution. Ironically, this may be our natural arc....the fact that it is what it is suggests this is the case. But dark?? Perhaps I just don't like, use or understand the term.....sounds like sorcery or fiction to me.

Right, RabbiO did not say that, the OP did. But your point about instantaneous, 24/7 global news is a very good one, and supports the claim of being more acutely aware of human nature. But since the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality of most media is prone to only report and repeat negative aspects of human activity, it seems we consumers are rather enjoying this "dark side" because we keep buying it, keep focusing on it, and keep talking about it. If that had been the angle of this topic from the start, I would have agreed with it. But this also assumes our forebearers were dolts, not able to discern human nature from the microcosms of their societies, cities, etc... I tend not to believe that, and consider this "new enlightenment" of our dark side to be grist for the self-help gurus out there, or the folks who advance the notion....oh, wait, I'm not going there, nevermind. Anyway, I think wise men have always known their nature and the only thing that is "more" now is media. To wit, this forum..... I prefer to TRY to focus instead on all the GREAT and POSITIVE and LIGHT aspects of human nature. All the ones before my very eyes, the stuff media isn't the lea$t bit interested in.

I think people with discernment are capable of making the right decisions in the face of emotions to the contrary. Eh???? I do not find it rational to assert that because I don't accept evil it must therefore be because I don't understand it. Discernment and judgment are important and real things. Moral rationalization is important also, but only in the aspect that it is a huge danger to anyone wanting to live in a discernable, sustainable, fair and real world.

What does that mean? What new evidence of a dark side? Please do not run from this question, as others have. It is an honest question that demands/begs/asks for an honest answer.

A different twist on the point I feebly tried to make. His/Her lack of representing (or understanding) the full political spectrum is also represented, in part, by his expressed views on this forum.

Me either. Be careful of how you inquire about it, however, as people get real touchy. I've long thought that man had always recognized darkness within humankind, and long accepted it as part of nature; but these guys seem to be saying something about the realization manifesting itself in the last century, and then only in certain humans. Perhaps this notion correlates to the explosion of psychiatrists and self-help gurus in the last century...... Since my dissenting opinion isn't tolerated, I'll refrain from any further attempts at exploring the topic. What Hexalpa says about it is the way it is.

Wait, you put forth the notion that we carry in us a "darkness," and I challenge that, and now I am the one advancing malarky? I suggest I am advancing something different, and it certainly does not smell of self-loathing. I asked previously, Senor Alpa, where are you going with this??? And what "pile" is it you think I am proffering?

JHBL, I normally understand your posts. In this case, I do not. There is no connection, IMO, between your rationalization of not being afraid of gay people (which is odd, to me) and the realities of a complex world in which people are in clear and present conflict and competition for your slice of freedom. Are you suggesting that the realities of the world are merely a reflection of our own inner conflictions? If so, that sure is a convenient way to avoid dealing with the world. Kinda like much of what we read in the "Peace" thread....IMO... So, all of a sudden, in the last century, "we" are suppose to acknowledge that humans are dark creatures. What a self-loathing pile of malarky. Sorry. I don't share your astonomical level of negativity. What kind of religious bull ** is this? What is your solution? Are we supposed to kneel at the alter of government to absolve our genetic imperfections????? Seriously, where are you going with this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmh1Z3Em-Ok&feature=related