Pete

I know this will not mean much to you Dan but the Pope, Baptist church, United Evangelicals church, Episcopalian church, Quakers, Unitarian church, Lutheran church, and the Methodist church have all said it is not Christian to support the death penalty. Maybe they don't have the same bible as you or do not see it your way.

I believe the point still stands. You are judged worthy of death but saved by the blood of Jesus are now judging another as worthy of death. How is that not look at a splinter in another's eyes when you have wood in your own. Now don't come the spiritual line or we are saying the bible is only sometimes true and cannot be taken as literal.

Matthew 7 1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Likewise  Luke 6:37 37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. I think that says do not judge. It also says if you judge someone to die, then so will you will also.

The question is not paying a debt or being rehabilitated to society but you judge a person to death. Each of the gospels tell you not to judge. That is not to say there should be no law, but to say you have sin worthy of death too according to the bible. For you to want death is putting you as being let off your sin but inflicting judgement on others. As the parable of the debtor who was forgiven his debts but then punished for not forgiving debts owed him. The other thing is most murders are done by the poor and disturbed. So I think those who insist it has to be the death sentence lack understanding or love for their neighbour. Long prison sentences yes but not death. That puts the US in the bracket as China in that so many are killed by the law.

Yet, that means the law (which saves no one) is only there because god has two standards. One he applied to Cain and the other to the Jews later. Your god had mercy to Cain and later was hell bent on kill that person and this person and then later still, decides to have himself killed so he can forgive rather than just forgive. Do you understand. It can work if god has more than one standard to people. Either that or it's nonsense.and god is not always the same.

So your saying God's desires for us changed. I thought God was the same yesterday as today.

I thought Jesus did away with the law. Why obey just this one and not the one about killing everyone in a nearby town who had someone preaching another religion. I also note that Christianity is popular in prisons. Are you saying you would pray with them and throw the switch. It seems like double standards to me.

I am a little surprised as god did not order the death of Cain when he slew Abel and yet you do. Was not that also premeditated.

In the states the sentences look much longer than the UK. I don't know why that is. Life in the UK is about 30years and you may get out early on licence for good behaviour and leave by the home office. The later safe guard is about those who are deemed still a risk. Multiple murderers may never get out. Yet, the states you may get 20 years and then a death sentence I am not saying the UK is perfect, it ain't. But it seems more severe or have I got that wrong. I have met people who went to prison for 15 years living a normal life and I don't believe they would do it again. Life is hard and for some particularly hard. I believe in the second chance.

I have met Christians who believe in the death penalty and others who feel in an advanced civil society it is morally wrong. I am asking all viewpoints.

I use Facebook for somethings, but the point of the ULC for is a learning tool and it helps to have something to refer too. Facebook is a here today, gone tomorrow sort of thing.

When I was a Liberal Christian I always respected what Bishop Spong had to say:- My problem with it now is if you cannot understand god or have evidence that god existed then what the heck are we saying we believe in. I get the understanding of human compassion for each other but no one has to be Christian to believe in that. Our whole survival as human beings has been on that compassion for each other and giving a care for each other. Yet, why Christian? Atheists, Agnostics, and Humanists have that same respect for each other so why Christian at all. That is why I am no longer liberal even though Spong is more honest than others in what he teaches.

I like that.

16 Then God made two great [d]lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth. All that just to give us some light. This measly speck of dust in the vastness of space. Several days work on the earth and one days work for the rest of the universe. Its laughable really. Talk about overstating ones importance to everything. 😂

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51491471 This is us from 4 billion miles away. Which in space terms is nothing. Centre of the universe phooey!! Try to make sense of genesis with this.

How do I import a picture to here?

Brian Cox on the universe part one of two.

Hello Damnthing. Welcome to the forum.

What organisations is that? I never knew that.

A person's religion not be not present and is replaced by philosophy. I think Humanism go some way towards this. Actual living things matter, be they Human or some other creature. They are real as you say and relatable in the way a invisible, concept, of an all powerful being cannot be relatable. The former we can see and prove they exist in a way the later cannot. All you have is a group of fanatical people demanding something is so and say you have to believe what they say or in some book, is right without any real evidence.

I sympathise a bit to the Humanist position and a bit to the atheist position, but mostly to the agnostic position. When I said it does not matter, I was referring to whether there is a god or not as it cannot be proved and has no influence either way.

Maybe the word God is wrong or strong because I don't know either whether there is an actual God or not. Say they created a mini universe in the Hadron collided then they would be its creator but not God's. Can I say we don't live in a huge Hadron collided then I just don't know. It maybe very unlikely but again I cannot completely write it off. All of this maybe fantasy and even pointless but lots of yesterday's fantasy is today's reality. I will stick with agnostic on the atheist perspective. Does all this matter- well no.

i kinda go with this vid. I am also.polyatheist, but see myself as agnostic.

Interesting. For me to say your open minded to the possibility of any god but you don't see any evidence for there being one and that's why your agnostic and not atheist is for me a valid position. I definitely don't believe in the biblical god because for me it makes no sense to me. Now I may ponder that there is some life form out in space presently pondering that there maybe other life forms In space doing the same thing. I have no evidence for that but I am open to the possibility. Now, I am open to the possibility of a god (just not as described by the bible), now is that fair to say I am being ridiculous as Ricky suggests?

I know some Christians had a separate site to discuss what happens here. I don't know if it's still there. There is nothing wrong in us doing the same. Ps// Just checked- their site is still running.