Pete

Trump, the most intelligent man in the world, the Pope, Angela Merkel and a Schoolboy were in an airplane. The pilot rushed in and said grab a parachute as the plane is going to crash. He then Jumped out. Noticing that they were short of parachutes the most intelligent man grabbed a bag and jumped out. The Pope said I am in charge of the Catholic church and its important that I survive and so he grabbed a bag and jumped out. Angela Merkel said to the boy that means there is only one parachute left and said to the boy that he should have the last bag as I have lived my life. The Schoolboy replied that there was two parachutes left as the most intelligent man in the world had grabbed his satchel and therefore they were both saved.

They already have computers that flag up odd behaviour in London. Another thing about phones. Two terrorists were avoiding talking to each other and were just typing in messages to each other but not sending it. They just showed each other the typed message and then deleted it. They thought they were safe. However, the police still managed to get the messages and jail them for it. Nothing is safe online and they already know a lot more about than you think. Another thing police in the UK, in the Derbyshire peak district (A large natural park) have been using drones to pick out walking groups of more than two and warning them. 1984 ain't too far away.

The USSR was made up many eastern block countries who never wanted to join but were passed on to Russia after the second world war. No one had the will to take on Russia back then. These countries were having their national identities strip away from them and so there was antipathy towards Russia. There was also a lot of fear as people would be spirited away in the night and sent to Siberia or shot and buried. A friend told me if you wanted to joke about Russia you closed all the windows and doors and went to the centre of your home to whisper it. So when the wall collapsed so did the control of Russia and could not wait to get out. China is one country and has one identity except Tibet. Many living in fear. It gives out the most death sentences and can hold court without your presence and later pick you up in a van and kill you with no appeal. I hope China does collapse but I don't see it for a long time. I wish I did.

I don't understand Jonathan's. I cannot believe your arguing the existence of a god. Christianity without the man god has little meaning and we both agree on that being a. Fantasy, Therefore it and the babble have little meaning to us. Judaism and Islam relies too much on the enforcement of brutal rules and therefore it diminishes itself. To rely on man to enact brutal punishment is another way of saying their absent god can't be relied upon to enforce his own rules. That and if there is a god then the brutality demonstrates how petty he is given our meagre presence. In this universe.

That was their opinion. I am not saying you should take it. They are also saying that they worship a buddhist man and not a man god. This makes it all sound daft. If there was no resurrection then all the miracles are in question. So what do they worship. It's either a philosophy or a custom. They have nothing more. I think that is apparent to all but them.

I know these verses well. The sword and shield is the word of god which they equate to the babble. Never giving a thought to the many changes it went through, its lack of eye witnesses in the NT, language variance, editing by scribes, and synthesis as which books went in it right into the middle ages. Even the Paulian content. Chosen to the exception of other writings at the time. Not mentioning Paul wrote his stuff before the gospels and the gospels were influenced by Paul. Not bad for someone who never met the Jesus he talks about or had much to do with those who had. The so called word of god babble is built on shaky ground.

I just find it baffling when they think that their view is the only one valid and it is self evident when in fact it is far from it. It's like someone we know saying the reason we disagree is because we hate the bible when in fact we doubt its credibility. The idea of hate suggests that we have feelings invested in it when in fact it means so little to us. Its that they cannot stand. Whether they heard the voice of god on mount Sinai as Judaism, or was told by an angel as in Islam or Jesus was god and man in Christianity, its all on shaky territory. There is no tangible evidence and much has been spread by word of mouth before it was written. Even in Islam the family all took a place in writing it down.There were no independent witnesses and nor do we see these things today.

I read Barry Wilson's book. It is very informative. It's one of the reasons for me going liberal and then agnostic. The other was the claims made by fundamentalism. It appeared to me if there are illogical claims now then why not 2000 yrs ago.

I know. I have read some of the orthodox. I liken them to fundamentalism.

Christians often like to talk about the martyrs who died bringing the gospel to them but understate their persecution of the Jews and the persecution the Jews got from the Roman's. Christian persecution of Jews went on for centuries throughout Europe. Much of it was a power grab as the Jews were more informed over the meaning of the OT and the origins of some of the teachings of Jesus in the NT and the church did like being contradicted. Jews also could see the helonist roots of Paul's teachings.The church claimed Peter for it's instigator and adopted Paul's letters for their scripture. There is no provable link between Peter and the church at all or that Paul was given a mission to the gentiles other than the bible. The church created the myth Jesus was God and that would never be acceptable to the Jews and so they were persecuted more so than the Christians over the years.

Not resentment, more the fun of the debate.

I understand Jonathan, but I cannot resist the temptation to poke the hornets nest from time to time. 🤡 Call it in payment for my years of indoctrination.

I am not promoting any side.

I know, but given this is a theist site supported by bible believing Christians I thought it interesting.

😃😁

I remember a hypnotherapy course I went. The object was to circumvent the conscious mind and its objects and blocks to healing. Hypnotherapy cannot do anything that a person may object too or make people do what is against their will but is in the relaxed state to consider alternatives to their present situation. Outside of the fraudulent showmanship of hypnosis the relaxed state is not to be under the control of one will over another, but to remove blocks to change. The tutor then said one of the most common uses of this technique is when a preacher says "let us pray". Most don't realize they are being hypnotized. That is either intentional or by custom. I note most evangelical churches say hypnosis is sinful. One cannot have someone else using the same techniques it seems.

It is nonsense of course. They only quote things that can taken their way and disregard all else. That was my point about syphilis and TB. We are fragile creatures and vulnerable to many illnesses and disorders. Everyone gets ill at sometime no matter what they believe. Why people don't laugh at these extreme views I don't know.

Why is it when ever a new illness comes along you get some religious nutter stating that it is their gods punishment for something. A Jewish orthodox member declares that the coronavirus is God's punishment because of gay love. A catholic priest declared aids is God's punishment for gays. Even some police officers have said that in the UK. No one says syphilis is their gods punishment for heterosexuals or TB was gods punishment for breathing. Total madness.

Yugoslavia was a scary situation. People who were friends and neighbours one minute and the next killing one another. It's a warning to us all.

Boris has told so many obvious lies in the UK and yet, people vote for him and some believe him. It seems in the UK some will back a rebellious upstart no matter how dishonest he/she can be. Anyone who bucks the establishment is respected but the odd thing is he is part of the establishment. He is rich, does not care about anyone, has Royal connections and is a known liar. He has been sacked from previous jobs for lying and he is a friend of Trumps. A strange age we live in.

Its interesting about the Christian right wing support for Trump. Put aside whether Jesus was real or not, but I don't remember Jesus saying build a wall to keep foreigners out. Make poorer countries poorer. Make them pay for a wall around me and if their children come put them into crowded compounds and take them away from their parents. They are no more than vermin. Yet, so many believers think Trump can do no wrong. I am not putting down the US because we have Boris and he is just as bad, but he does not pretend to be Christian or be supported by the religious right.

I agree but they often preach that stuff is beyond question and breed another generation of ignorance (imo). I note Trumps policy is to pray to stop coronavirus. It gives the impression that they are doing something when in fact not much is being done. I note one journalist on Facebook is talking about the benefits brought by the virus in clearing out the elderly.

For me I cannot say there is no god, just that the gods of each religion and denominations I have studied failed to convince me they exist. I cannot say there is no god because I don't claim to know all, so I cannot be an atheist, but equally I cannot see any evidence for a god so I cannot be a theist. I feel irritated when some try to convince me with their religious books which equally make no sense and are not evidence that a god exists. So I stand on the middle ground believing that no evidence for a god can be found or that it is impossible to relate to a god of which there is no evidence or that in dialogue with the god there is no tangible response. Humanism sounds good to me because it suspends any mention of a god of which their is no proof and concentrates on what we can relate too and that is our life experience now. In the end until evidence for a god exists and there is some tangible response or dynamic with the world I live then I am past caring and turn off listening some believer's dogma. There are more important things in life.