Pete

I am sorry but if Dan was not so persistent I would dismiss it as boring dribble. He continues to present none evidence and belief as this were facts. I would say Dan is not only rigid but also very narrow minded. He has nothing to offer except his book of none evidence and continues to not connect with the views of others and sees pride in this. I would say remove the bible and apologetic sites and he would be significantly lost in things to say. It does not take intelligence to quote scripture. It does if you have to stand with others on your own mental faculties. Sorry but there it is for me and my view on Dan.

The other thing is you not only supersede logic but there is a need to comply with the views of the church. The more bible based the worst it becomes as I found out when defending gay people. I was sent to Coventry and treated like a leper. If anyone talked to me one of the. Elders would try to take them away from me. The church is not run by love. It is run by obedience to a dogma. I found no comfort there. At least, I have ownership to my own mind now. I find that comforting.

I know you believe that and it is a comfort for you, but without conclusive evidence it is no comfort to me. You might as well tell me aliens will come and rescue us.

I have still yet to be convinced that racism is not taught. My grand child went to the doctors surgery the other day and on seeing another child present in the waiting room they immediately set about playing together with the toys. The fact he was white and the other child black meant nothing. Just wish it was always like this.

I agree. Most religions make assertions and I doubt anyone is going to join them all just on the off chance one of them maybe right. No religion on the face of it is anymore believable than another but that is just the point why would any god leave so much to chance that people may get the right one. I am convinced that all religions are man made and beyond their belief they lay as empty shells with the absence of realistic substance we can grasp with reality.

I am not against anyone having a personal faith in something, but a belief is not evidence.. Dan you talk about the need for hope but that hope is .held on the same basis of it being belief. It could be said a comforting delusion in giving the person a hope or one of countless religions each peddling their hope , but it all sadly lacks imperical or demonstratable evidence or apparent facts that are indisputable.and mutually agreed. One of the difficulties religious people have is they want to talk about their holy book or creed or dogma and for others to take it as fact as they have themselves. This does not work unless the other person agrees with this in the first place. The other mistake is they quote from these books and creeds as if people have not heard them before. Most agnostics.and atheists have heard them before and found them shallow and unfounded. Your not showing them facts or evidence. You're showing them a belief and therefore its a thing for the believer but not the agnostic or atheist who wants evidence.

The ULC has also been a learning curve for me. I started out as a fundamentalist Christian, then liberal and then agnostic. Many challenges came my both on and off the forum. Its been an education. I got many friends across the spectrum and I am grateful to them. It helped unpack a lot of childhood indoctrination. I used to worry if I thought differently from the faith. I don't anymore. It's being ,whatever your view, true to yourself. A lot more different to traditional education where you have to be true to what your taught and not what you find to be true for yourself.

Richard Dawkins' baloney check list:- The complete checklist:

That maybe so Mark, but if someone is told that they do not believe the bible as evidence then quoting more of it and using it to justify your argument is futile. I accept Dan thinks differently to me but has he accepted I think differently to him. If he does then why keep posting biblical stuff on a no religion part of the forum when no one wants to hear it. We have got CML having his own pulpit in the philosophy section and not listening to anyone. Dan preaching in the no religion section. Hey ho! There we go.

Dan your idea of truth is not mine. Stop peddling it because it will never make sense to me. If a person does not believe the bible then quoting it or presenting it as presumed evidence means nothing to the reciever. What is viewed as fantasy cannot be evidence of reality.

Thanks Jonathan that clears up a lot for me. I remember when I first became a liberal Christian and people started writing to me as if I was seeking another religion. The truth was I was not. Since, being agnostic I didn't get those contacts. The only thing I find at this time is people sending me religious online greetings and asking me to post them on. I have to point out I don't believe in the story and therefore ask them not to send me religious posts. I can see from your description that I drift into all areas at times. Humanist, agnostic, atheism and apatheism. It seems many labels are there as a response to the understanding of others. Me I don't think about it much otherwise.

I think I have answered my own question:;- Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes. It has been my experience that most agnostics and atheists share these values.

I always seen Humanism as Atheism and maybe Agnosticism but I have been told that they differ. Any thoughts. Don't they all share common thinking?

Boring.

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪 in the end interfaith or not, this section in about No religion.

In the UK there was a notorious murderer called the Yorkshire Riper who killed and dismembered women at night. He claimed God told him to do it. Guess what he still got life imprisonment.

Your Honor, the deed was committed by a being called a God. You can't see them or hear them or see them intervene. You can talk to it but you won't hear a reply. He comes in three parts. One of those parts you testify that he was born of a virgin, killed and rose from the dead. This was a long time ago but you want the jury to accept this as evidence. Yep! Best of luck with that.

That and there is plausible evidence in reality to back it up. No case would stand on this.

None of us would even think about Dan 's belief if he did not pester us with it. I don't know why we even listen.

Achilles heal? A court does not prove the truth but given what evidence there is then what is the plausible explanation. I am sure there are many people in prison who are innocent. The bible fails on the plausibility and what there is open to interpretation. That is why you feel you need to defend myth with more myth. That is your Achilles heal.

It has to be built up on presented facts. It cannot be just anything. A book on Hobbits or Vampires does not make evident that either is true or exists. I hold the bible also in that category. Just because some bronze age person says something does not make it true or that god is real. That is a belief and not evidence.

Just a point. I said I don't want converts of any sort. I want people who can think for themselves. I am talking about feelings and not just religion.

It's more than that Jonathan. Dan just does not get I don't give a damn about his views on religion. I just don't care. To me it's a nonsense and I wish he would leave this no religion section to "no religion ". Sorry if that sounds hard but I feel a need to spell it out. Call it apathy or call it I don't care. Whatever gets the message across.

Look Dan it seems to me one minute your saying the bible is accurate and then it can mean just about anything. Not something to put much trust in It, it seems to me. Anyway this is a no religion section and I came here not to talk about religion. It bores me nowadays and I really don't care what the bronze book of edited oddments has to say. It matters little to me.

It still means sailing over the Himalayas and the Afghanistan mountain ranges to get anywhere near the mountains of Ararat. Any flood that covered these mountains had to be worldwide.