Pete

That is the point. There are no miracles or evidence. We just have a collection of very dubious bronze age scripts that have been highly edited and synthesized through the ages. Beyond that there is nothing. Nothing that distinguishes it from other scripts from the time. I put it to you, it is you that believes in nothing but an old myth. You say I believe in nothing but I do. I believe in science and humanity. I believe that far from original sin as you say mankind is centrally good but that goodness is distorted by the hardships and experiences of this life. I don't believe that only a few go to some mystical heaven. For me if there was another life I would want everyone to get the chance. However, I see no evidence of a second life and therefore that belief is based on a myth. I believe we and the rest of animal kind is all there is to this life and we make the most of that because one day it and this earth will be no more.

The more I talk to Dan the more mad he appears. We go over the same ground over and over again. Quoting a book we don't believe in is not going to convince anyone of anything. There is no evidence that god exists, no evidence that if Jesus existed or that he was god, no evidence that the bible is anything but a bronze age collection of myths and no evidence of anything miraculous or a god inspired influence is going on. We live on the earth but this planet is no more than a speck of dust in a massive ocean of space. It is not all about us. That said I just don't give a damn for your religion Dan. End of.

I see Dan's argument equivalent to someone believing in Pixies living in the centre of the sun. It maybe very unlikely but with faith you can believe that they are there. No one can disprove it. Therefore that is okay then. 😅🤣😂

Without repetitious assertions most of fundamentalism would òf died years ago. Because without repetition what do they have? Nothing!

Hi Jonathan. 👍 Got to sleep now. Its three in the morning here. Hope to catch you again.

The above message was for Dan. Sadly for him persistence is not evidence.

Agnostics and Atheists identify with what we can see and prove in our environment. We do not project myth into our perception or understanding. We have the reality we van identify. Everything else is unprovable and baseless. To us it is you that has nothing but superstition and myth. If you base your sum on nothing , it does not matter how many times you multiply it your sum total argument is still nothing. You have not one thing you can bring to the discussion that we can agree proves anything, and therefore your defending a position with nothing. I give you that you are persistent, but like the multiplying of nothing it does mean anything except to you.

I go with I don't know if a deity exists and no one can prove it. So unless you have empirical, indisputable, and demonstrable proof, then don't bother me with fairy stories.

In the days of the lords of the manor in the UK. You could dismiss any servant seen during the day in the masters quarters. So if they cause me bother I will just sell them off to someone worse. I think they are lucky I don't believe in slavery, biblical or not.

Can you capture some evangelical Christians for me because they don't mind, I understand.

All I can say is anyone who does not think slavery is bad are welcome to become my slave for 7 years working long hours and getting beaten regularly. However as it is in this bronze age book it cannot be bad eah! What have you got to say?. I will pay your capturers good money for you and I promise not to kill you. I will make sure you don't get away. I may even perform circumcision on you and molest the women. Do not complain because there is this god you cannot see who says it is fine. Any volunteers?

The mod of operations "We are the special people. We have the only truth and true message, therefore all must conform to us and anyone who does not conform must be treated with righteous wrath" It is arrogant, ignorant, folly, and pig headed. (Imo).

Yes, bull from the beginning till the end. 🐃🐂🐃🐄

Aaah! But it changes once you discover it.

True. There is nothing that inspires me to believe that the holy books are the words of some mystic super being. Maybe if the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy was written in the far past then maybe it to would have religious followers.

I always watch the deception being made when followers use the bible to justify their messages with a few chosen words from the collected works whilst ignoring the majority of the rest of it. They say love thy neighbour but ignore the barbaric nature of the law in the OT. All that is supposed to come from the same cosmic being. They preach that god died for their sins in order to save them whilst forgetting this is the same vicious being that tried to drown the world in the tale of Noah because he could not forgive. The same god which gave laws that none virgin brides should be stoned, that wayward daughters of priests should be burnt alive, and that parental abusive children should be killed. This and it's unscientific explanations for things like creation, disease, and astronomy. The more one reads it as a whole instead of the selective verses the more one conceives the nonsense of it and is driven like myself from believer to none believer. I feel the the best argument for Atheism is the bible and it's irritating and illogical adherent followers.

Accidentally posted this topic twice. Please don't comment here. 👍👍👍

Islam at 4.2 % of the population but the fastest growing perspective is "No Religion" in the UK. That now stands at the latest survey at 53% of the population in the UK.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Donald Trump Antichrist 666.htm

there is no evidence that they witnessed anything. Yeah! I have heard the suggested connection between Mark and Peter but here again that is just surmised but it can not be a presumed because there is no established or recorded connection. I have heard Mark was a roman scribe of Peter's but again there is no proof of any of it. I dont call it a hoax because people actually believed the event. Bronze age man was capable of believing lots of myths. You only have to look at the Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and Babylonian gods to understand that. As for the Paul story on the road to Damascus, the story in Acts written much later, does not seem to make up its mind what happened and Paul never quoted it in anything he wrote. Religions and gods were ten a penny back then and I believe without Constantine's endorsement I doubt the Jesus story would of made it into the present day. So hoax no. Ignorance, superstition, and wanting to believe it I believe helped spread it. All I can say if the bible is some almighty gods way to save the world it is a very poor effort. But hey if you want to believe nonsense then that is up to you.

Dan you say a lot of bull sometimes. Shakespeare wrote 41 plays, 154 sonnets, and 2 narrative poems. All bear his name. I can also see records from people who saw his plays at the globe theatre including royalty. I can even visit his home where he was born and there has been historic digs at the site of the globe theatre. Now then we have no records of anything Jesus wrote. We have three synoptic narratives based mainly on Mark. Who really wrote them is unknown but there is nothing to suggest they witnessed anything. There are no first or second person narration or impressions, which suggests they are just repeating something they were told. There is no proof that any of them met Jesus. Their names and additions have been added later. Then we have a Paulian influenced gospel of John declaring he was God and written much later. Then we have the book of Acts that does not sit well. Most of what is Christianity is Paulian. Paul never met Jesus or had much to do with his disciples. Then there is debate as to how much he wrote. There is no record about Jesus that does not come from the bible and nothing that directly came from him. My money is on Shakespeare..

Outside of the bible no historical documents exist that have not been forged that Jesus existed. Jews being there or not there does not mean any of the gospel writers were there. Outside of the bible more is known about Pilate than Jesus. Again we come to the gospel of Dan.

I was just hoping for some from Dan. Sllly me.He makes so many sweeping statements that don't add up without the gospel of Dan.

Pontius Pilate is recorded in Roman history for being a cruel man who loved causing outrage among Jews just so he could kill a few more. He is the only leader Caesar ordered back to Rome because of his cruelty. Now you say 4 witnesses. There is no evidence any of Jesus' followers witnessed Pilate judging Jesus. Hey, one gospel said he said nothing and another says he had a full conversation with Pilate. We are also asked to accept that this thug of a Roman leader did not want to crucify Jesus and yet Roman records show he delighted in killing Jews. I put this down to the fifth gospel of Dan. After all I am sure you witnessed it if you can say who else was a witness. None of the gospels writers declared they were there with Jesus and Pilate.

I have siblings who are JWs. After years of trying to convince me by them and members of their church the elders just asked them not talk to me about religion anymore. Things have been a lot better since. I get the occasional dig like " don't you think it strange that people believe in evolution just because they found a few bones?" You can imagine my response to that 🤣🤪😀