Coolhand

Both.

The age of the universe is not a fundamental issue to the mission and the purpose of the church.

For those that are not familiar with the Assemblies of God, and are not sure what a person believes that claims to be and Assemblies of God (AG) church member, these are the 16 foundational truths of the AG. Our 16 Fundamental Truths 1.WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind. 2.WE BELIEVE...There is only One True Godrevealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity). 3.WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine. 4.WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sinushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world. 5.WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal Savior). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG] 6.WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation. 7.WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG] 8.WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is Speaking in Tongues, as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles. 9.WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike. 10.WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ. 11.WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, to build up or edify the body of believersthe Church and to Meet human need with ministries of love and compassion. 12.WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG] 13.WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed HopeWhen Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG] 14.WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel and the establishment of universal peace. 15.WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire. 16.WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!' http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Statement_of_Fundamental_Truths/sft_short.cfm Of these 16 there are four that are considered "core" or "cardinal" doctrines: salvation (#5), baptism in the Holy Spirit (#7), divine healing (#12), and the return of Christ (#13). God bless.

Rock and Roll Hootchie Koo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wTXv9KPWeg&feature=related

Thank you...thank you very much.

Pespectives on the World Christian Movement: A Reader Ralph D Winter and Steven C Hawthorne eds. Pasadena: William Carey 1999. 782 pp., paperback.

Yeah...It looks almost like some sort of a metaphorical moral object lesson about big government versus small government at the expense of a religious group.

Has anyone read this? http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=539

The Purpose Driven Church: Growth Without Compromising Your Message & Mission Rick Warren Grand Rapids: Zondervan 1995. 399 pp., hardback. Rick Warren is the pastor of Saddleback Community Church. He holds a Master of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Seminary, and a Doctor of Ministry from Fuller Theological Seminary. He has been involved in ministry since the mid-1970s. In this book Rick outlined the beginning of the mega-church of which he is the senior pastor. He detailed the philosophy of ministry that has kept this church growing and maintaining its membership. He noted that it is paramount to keep the needs of the people in mind, and to choose a ministry target group on which to focus, no one church can reach everyone. This is how the purpose of the church is determined, and then everything the church does needs be designed around its purpose, as it meets the needs of the targeted ministry group. His main point was that churches need to be driven by purpose in order to succeed. I got a lot out of this book and discovered many useful tools to implement in my own ministry settings. I thought it was interesting how Rick does things almost exactly backwards to most churches I have been involved with. Most churches start with a core group and disciple them, then use this core group to build the membership through evangelism. Rick argued that once this core group becomes disciple, they no longer think like the unchurched and therefore are out of touch with the unchurched and are ineffective in evangelism. His method is to focus on the new believers, and having them reach the unchurched by inviting them to church. He pointed out that after people have been in church for a while they forget what it was like to walk into church for the first time. Rick has carefully surveyed and discovered lists of things that church members say and do which make visitors uncomfortable. He covered many issues that I will admit I was not even aware of that now seem obvious that hinder church growth. This is an excellent book for anyone who is going into ministry or who is in ministry and is troubled by a lack of ministry growth.

Good luck Bluecat, we will definately be praying.

The Missional Leader: Equipping Your Church to Reach a Changing World Alan J. Roxburgh and Fred Romanuk San Francisco: Jossey-Bass. 2006. 219 pp., hardback. $23.95 Fred Romanuk and Alan J. Roxburgh have written this book to engage the change in leadership style that is required by the church in order to be effective in the new and changing culture that defines America today. Fred Romanuk is an organizational psychologist, and Alan J. Roxburgh has 30 years pastoral experience in church leadership and is a faculty member of several seminaries. This book accurately describes the church culture as it exists today: church members having become consumers of religious goods and services instead of being chaplains and ambassadors from the Kingdom of God to our culture and society. These authors claim that instead of the individual being at the center of their own world, God must be at the center through the indwelling of the biblical narratives, prayer, silence, acts of hospitality and listening. Instead of the church being a place that people come and get their needs met until their needs are no longer met and then move on, the church needs to be the Kingdom of God that people come to transform into and become part of its work. I was excited by this book and felt a connection right away with the content. These authors put in perspective how many in the church use Jesus, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and prayer as a means to help them with their struggles. They reiterated strongly that the main point is God and His Kingdom, and we are here to fit ourselves into that. They stressed the importance of listening and insist that the answers are not going to come from the top down, but are going to come from within the church, and how the responsibility of the leaders is to cultivate an environment of missional imagination that is to come from the church members. The Missional Change Model that they suggested: awareness, understanding, evaluation, experimentation, and commitment along with indwelling the Scripture, prayer, listening to the church and the culture makes more sense than any approach that I have heard to this crisis. This return to the basics of Christianity is the answer to the restlessness and groaning that have been coming from the church in the recent decades. This book should be a requirement for anybody in Christian leadership. The practical principles outlined in the book have increased my leadership understanding and I have already benefited from the insight of these authors.

Interesting Samuron; Gallup is credible to you?

"Exegetical Fallacies" by DA Carson. Second edition, Baker Academic: Grand Rapids, 1996. On page 18 he quotes Robert K. Johnston; Evangelicals at an Impasse: Biblical Authority in Practice (Atlanta: John Knox, 1979), vii-viii: "[that] evengelicals, all claiming a Biblical norm, are reaching contradictory theological formulations on many of the major issues thay are addressing suggests the problematic nature of thier present understanding of theological interpretation. To argue that the bible is authoritative, but to be unable to come to anythinglike agreement in what it says (even with those who share an evengelical commitment), is self-defeating."

A few corrections/clarifications to my posting: - A manuscript is a HANDWRITTEN copy prior to mechanical printing. - A version is what happens as a result of translation because people translate things differently. - Dr Robert Morey was were I heard that you could write the Saudi embassy and request a copy of the Koran in English. He used to preach Sunday nights at a church I attended about 10 years ago. He would bring his Koran and his multi volume Hadith and answer questions. However, I thought he was a little more entertainment than education. He said he tried to contact Imams to debate with them, but he alleged that they only wanted to talk to Jimmy Swaggert, I guess referring to the Dedat/Swaggert debates of 1986 (or somewhere around: mid to late 80's)..lol. Whether that is actully true or not I don't know. Dr. Morey claimed at the time to have PhD in Islamic studies, but I found that his only accredited doctorate is in ministry (DMin). So I very well could be wrong on what I had orignally posted.

I can't rememeber where I put my notes on this, but I remember something happening about the time the whole sunni / shia dispute broke out that one or the other collected up all the manuscripts because of variant reading and standardized the text; burning all the variants. I do know for a fact that there are versions of the Koran. A version is a translation into a different language, a copy in the original language is a manuscript. You can write the Saudi embassy and ask for a Koran and they will send you the equvilent of a "Scofield Bible" type Koran in English with foot notes and explainations.

BLUE MONDAY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3041kBbxGM

Are you saying one of them is wrong?

Hey now

I dont wanna lose myself in love again by my heartbeat................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPRzKSdADg

PM me if this is a familiar song to you........

Thank you......thank you very much

Do you think you can tell? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1moiym6-Nk...feature=related

Cold.........(right on Lowell!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmG8sdaeCYk

Loud is good...........reminds me of all my party buddies in Bremerton -at-1991.......Rush, Harshey, Stengle, Drummer, Dalzeille, .....and others

http://nph.com/nphweb/html/htol/archivedIC...02_article.html