Coolhand

Thanks for the links NW. I agree with you about the NT Greek Manuscripts. I recently had a discussion with I professor I had in my undergrad program who insists the codek siniaticus is the oldest complete NT text; dated back to 350 ad. I told him about the Khubouris Aramaic which is a complete NT text that is atleast 100 years older. It seems thier is a still a schism between the eastern and western churches; both having thier preferred texts. Having studied the Greek and the Aramaic I have come away with the feeling of having wasted time because they say the same thing; minor differences that are not (in my opinion) worth the time investment to investigate. I will save the links and I thank you for posting them. What I am actually looking for (and am starting to doubt is out there) is someone who is interested in sharing what they know about these other religious paths. Someone who is devoted to religious paths other than Christianity that I can share, and learn different aspects of the same issues; to be taught and to understand from other views. I am currently in a masters program that requires around 2,000 pages of reading and somewhere around 65 pages of writing per class; so when someone tells me "here, you go research it" I really do not have that kind of time. Many of these other religions will be coming up in my cross cultural and anthropology studies, but studying it and knowing someone who actually is dedicated to and practices them is something completely differnt. I notice that if I want someone to list the endless problems with historic or conservative christianity, man people just get in line up and let it fly. But when I try to get someone to share positively about what they believe so I can learn from them, man I am just out of luck. Thanks for the links NW.

You would be my hero if you started a topic about this; I have a real interest in this! May God richly bless you brother!

Dont misunderstand me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPeGgnn-jdg

Nice post brother! I agree that validation from others is not important, that is just my awkward and clumsy choice of words as I was trying to find a sense of commoness and fellowship with others.

You are awesome! I kinda "knew" that there was a common ground that existed, and that whatever side person is 'placed' in this discussion is one of thoses things that just does not really matter. We all talk about love, and Jesus said that His followers would be known by thier love for one another. I know there are things wrong with my theology, nobody has it 100% right. If one of was 100% would the rest of us agree with that person? Jesus never said we would know his followers by thier defence of innerancy, or thier systematized theology, or impeccable philosophy. I think you hit the 'bull's eye' brother! Finding what we can unite under and enjoying each other's fellowship is what I think Jesus had in mind.

Well it isn't that difficult Dan. The way I see it is it as simple as allowing God to be God and me recognizing what can do and what I cannot do.

Pete; I love you bro, and I am just going to let this go. I was just looking for a yes or no answer to this: God bless.

You are going in a lot of different directions there Pete. In regard to my post: I can see the answer is no. Has it occurred to you that contradicting yourself? You say that conservative Christians will not validate the faith of liberal Christians, yet here you have me (which could be classified as a conservative Christian according to your criteria) that will enthusiastically validate your faith but you will not validate mine. Or maybe will are but it is buried deep in your criticism of Dan, the Bible, conservatives, Paul, and the church and I missed it.

You can believe what you believe but what I think it would be much more edifying for everyone reading if you would spend time discussing what you believe, why you believe it, and how it encourages, inspires, and edifies you; instead of focusing on what you do not believe and explaing over and over why you do not believe it. You have a realationship with God and God speaks to you; I know this for a fact because of the conversations we used to have in the mornings. You can be a great encouragement to people and have been to me. Yet I never get to be blessed by your relationship with God and how he blesses you anymore because all you seem to do is go over and over why you don't believe the Bible is the word of God, and how screwed up some Christains are. They already know they are screwed up which is why are are in church and studying thier bible. Pete, I understand that you have a different view of scripture than I do, and I do not see this as being a problem. I know that this may limit the degree to which we can fellowship because there are going to be disagreements. I don't think my relationship with God is and more valid than yours,I do not think that God prefers me over you. I do not think I am anymore Christian than you are but that we are equally Christian and brothers in Christ. I believe that you have a realtionship with God and that God speaks to you. Can you say the same about me?

Well don't feel like our friendship is contingent on your belief system. Don't feel like I am rejecting your friendship either. I'll fix the friend thing...lol...looks like only have 4 friends. I am still not clear what you are saying regarding my question however. In the other topic, you and Fawzo were pretty adamant about me testifying to the validity of beliefs that are divergent from mine. I still sense skepticism from you regarding the genuineness in my answer. I was able to positively respond to you your question ( I believe you are Christian even though you are outside my denomination), and I was able to positively respond to Fawzo ( that all the religions are valid). I do not feel like this goes both ways however. Your response (double negative) (not here to say your faith is not valid) is quite different then a simple "yes" and nowhere near an "absolutely." As a clarifying comment also, your approval or disapproval of my faith has no bearing on my dedication or feelings about my faith. Your approval or disapproval has no bearing on how I view our friendship. I have to ask; do you feel superior to a person that believes the Bible is inerrant?

I would say that "not saying something is not valid" is a little different than the "absolutely Pete" response I gave you when you asked if I considered you to be "as Christian" as an Assembly of God Christian. To be specific what I am asking is do people who believe the Bible is inerrant get the same "absolutely brother" response from you regarding the validity of their beliefs that you have been given from me regarding your beliefs?

Hey Pete, nice work. Regardless of the labeling, if someone has applied what the Bible teaches to their life and they find it to be solid, helpful, and liberating; and because of this freedom they decide to say that the Bible has been proven in their life and experience to be inspired and inerrant, and they tell other people that based on their experiences the Bible is inspired and inerrant, is their opinion as valid to you as those who have not had the same experience?

Redneck Girl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLBCVwXM-w

Power of Soul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjRdKxYYv44

lol.....yeah.

The reason many Christian denominations have a statement of faith, or list of cardinal truths, or fundamental truths is for a basis for fellowship. Some lists maybe very detailed, some are not so detailed. I have been involved in several non-denominational groups and have found that with the lack of a detail statement of faith, there always seems to be some issue that arises that prevents fellowhip on a deeper level. Now, I understand that alot of people are afraid of intimacy and like to keep thier distance, to each it own. Pete, have you expericenced any hinderance of fellowship because of not having a core beleif system to unite your group? Never mind that Pete, I see you guys have an entire book about faith an practice. I misunderstood what you were saying. It is not a fill in the blank organization at all.

I have been trying to get people of these other belief system to compare and contrast issues from these beleif systems but havent had any luck. All I seem to get is people telling me that theirs is as valid and mine isn't as valid as I claim. There is validity to these other systems, are they as valid it what you are asking. I would like to suspend that answer pending some compare and contrast discourse. I already have two topics started asking for this in Universal Spirituality. Let's discuss there. That was talking about Christianity in general, not the AG specifically. One of the things that has drawn me back to the AG is the focus shift and the culturally relavant programs. I think is have more to do with an effeective generation of social engineering. The "I Gen" link laid that out pretty cleary.

I can agree that that is how you see it. People gravitate to religions that speak to them. People find value in different relgious texts, and God speaks to people in ways that they understand. You need to determine for yourself whether a religion is solid in its foundation or valid. If I agreed with your last statement I would be denying that there are any uniqueness or speciality to the brand of Christianity that I find to be both unique and special. If it was no different than every other then there would be no reason in sharing about it.

Absolutely Pete.

If it works for you Pete it works for you. I am happy for you and I pray that God will continue to richly bless you. However that approach did not work for me and it does not work for many other people. Are you ok with me sharing about what works for me, Pete? I agree. Is it ok with you if I share what is working for me, Fawzo?

A suggestion I could make for you guys is to go and check it out for yourself; I don't mean that as a cop out, I will answer any question you have that I can, but seeing for yourself is the real deal. Here is the UK locator site: http://www.aog.org.uk/ This is the worldwide locator: http://ag.org/top/church_directory/index.cfm

Here again, your bias is killing you. What you are calling a 'myth' is working daily for us. The infallablility of the Bible is proven through its application in the lives of those that use the scritpures to live by. Unfortunalty Fawzo, your approach to infallability of the Bible is irrelevant to someone to whom the Bible and its teaching are making in a difference in their life. I'm sure this is quite a mystery to you.

Here is a resource that we use to help answer questions about healing: http://ag.org/ivalue/healing/ To answer your questions: As far as certification goes, there really is no specific certification procedure. I like the way you think, and I wish more people would acutally have doctors write out that there has been a notable miracle, but many will not. You are looking for medical or scientific documentation that can be reviewed and disputed as a way of determining whether there is fraud or if an actual healing has taken place. Other than the obvious signs and whatever doctors notes may exist that is all that I am aware of. The test is observation and the individual's testimony. Of course, pastors are not doctors nor do they claim to be. But when someone is no longer limping, or is able to go back to work after being disabled, or thier doctor has taken them off of medication, or a cancer or Hep C goes into remission and stays there following prayer for the individual, that is usually acknowledged as a divine healing. Keep in mind we are talking about a church not a labratory. The focus is worshipping God, not properly observing quantitiative and qualitatitve research methodology. The official position papers from the AG are against people being told to abandon medical care and just relying on prayer; but to use both. The medical practioners are seen as people that God has raised up and given wisdom in the field and are seen as valuable. There are AG pastors that are also doctors as well. We encourage people to seek medical attention and to seek the Lord both for thier healing. Many doctors will tell you that they have good drigs they can prescribe, and that they can cut things out of people, but the actual healing is 'done by others.' Meaning, thay can to the exact same procedure on four different people and have four different results. The assumption that the doctors and the medical profession heals anyone is erronous. Same procedure, one heals in recoed time, one dies on the table. Prayer inconjunction with the medical profession is the ideal situation. God does not need the doctors to heal, but he does use them as a way to minster to them as well. Either way, we still give God the glory for the healing. Relapses happen, and they happen for various reasons. Many view it as the relapsing persons' faith being weak, which I think is a mistake. Staying healed is like staying healthy; it is not a passive endeavor. The Scriptures can help train us to avoid attitudes and behaviours that contribute to relapses and bad health spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Both.

The age of the universe is not a fundamental issue to the mission and the purpose of the church.