revtimothybland

There's my personal experiences, as posted previously on this thread. Mere, kokigami is right in that this is a confusing subject. Great for speculation, though. So my personal experiences probably wouldn't answer your question at all. They don't even really answer it for ME, either.

Well, Legally is a pre-determined age. 18-21. Personally can be just about any age before or even after this mark. It depends on the individual.

I believe it's different for each individual. The law says 18-21 mostly because it's a middle of the road age where you move out and try to make something of yourself. In truth, some people take longer than this, and others are ready long before. For instance, I didn't get married till I was 23. I'm 26 now. I moved out at 19, but moved back in when I couldn't handle it, and then back out again at around age 21. I joined the Army Reserves, which lasted four years, and never re-enlisted because of my damn knee. My dad gave me my first beer, which I made the choice to refrain from all through high school, at the age of 20 after coming home from Basic Training. My dad said, "Son, you're old enough to serve your country, you're old enough to have a drink." I first had sex when I was 19 because I felt I should wait. Doesn't mean I didn't know what love meant. In fact, I never have, and still don't equate love with sex. That choice was made shortly after I hit puberty. So I kinda jumped around on the life choice thing. I like to think I made some ok choices. I know I've made mistakes. But that's all part of growing up. On a note of some people taking longer than others, I know three people, all over forty. Two should not be allowed to raise children at all. They still act like they're in high school. The third still lives with moma and likes to tell lies even after he's caught in them. Needless to say, I told them to "Blessed Be, and F$#^K OFF." I don't need bad influences in my life like that, but I didn't wish them any ill will.

Atwater, you have a point. I wasn't saying that everyone who uses the term "Worship" is enslaved, just that "worship" is too much like "slavery" to ME. Most of those who use the term ARE, as Atwater mentioned, enslaved by their own church/dogma/hierarchy. I understand, and have always understood, that this isn't always the case. So, I apologize for my somewhat crass, maybe even a little rude response to LeopardBoy.

I never said I equated "Worship" with "Slavery" because of the DEFINITION, I said it because of how it's used these days. YOU may be smart enough to look up the definition and use it in proper context, but not many people are willing to do that. Considering this thread was SUPPOSED to be our feelings about The Bible vs. Nature, and not "Let's define a word because I feel someone got it wrong and needs to be corrected", I feel somewhat offended that you didn't get the gist of what I was TRYING to say, and instead focused on something even slightly wrong so that you can make yourself out to be a smart, better person than myself. Bravo.

Healing energies and loving prayers we send in your time of need. Let disease beware of this warning it must heed. That nothing can stop our Healing Light From ending your wife's terrible Blight. Blessed Be.

Coming from a Christian upbringing, I do believe the Bible has its uses. It is, after all, a collection of stories filled with metaphor and allegory designed to help make a better you, much like a modern self-help book. But it is a book, written by man. Not worthy of worship. To that point, I agree with Hex. "Worship" is too much to me like "Slavery". I mean, why force us to bow to something's every whim, when instead we can choose to live in harmony with it? This is the difference between "Worshiping" something and "Respecting" it. I Respect Nature. Ted Nugent said it best, I think, in his "Sunrize, Narrated": I say how can it be that man owns the land, can we possess the sky, the wind, the call of the seasons ? Man does not own the earth, but rather the earth owns man, we’re merely caretakers of the wild for our children. We must show reverence for nature, the ground we share, and the spirit of the wild. We must respect each new sunrize. Take a deep breath, feel the spirit of the wild. Feel our instincts, feel the heart of the hunter. Each new day, each new sunrize can bring the renewal of life, the renewal of the spirit. Keep your senses alert, learn to appreciate the value of that sign. The excitement of that smell, that sight…the aroma of the woods. Cherish the beauty of our brother the eagle, the deer, our blood brother the bear. As the new sun warms our new day, thrill at the adventure of being one with nature. As the majestic buck melts out of the swamp, feel the spirit come alive. Hold tight to your bow and arrow, grab the spirit, Feel its presence, feel the spirit of the wild. Hey, there he is, in the wind…. [ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/sunrize-narrated-version-lyrics-ted-nugent.html ] The sensual stimuli, the thrill that will cleanse the soul, Go ahead, feel alive. The sunrize is on fire, as our senses, our very lifeblood is on fire. Share these sensations with your friends, Share ‘em with the children, For life is a series of sunrizes The spirit of the wild. Let it inspire your heart and soul, Challenge the good, natural hunter within you, Challenge yourself….to connect. Be an asset to nature. Take each day, take each sunrize step by step. Sunrize by sunrize. Take it to heart. Embrace the spirit of the wild. Embrace each and every sunrize Rise into the sun. Seize it. In the wind, he’s still alive…. Read more: TED NUGENT - SUNRIZE (NARRATED VERSION) LYRICS

My wife and I already performed our fertility rites last week, when the equinox actually happened, but that was mostly to free us up so that we can do something with our more Christian family members today. That usually means getting baskets full of candy and fake grass and watching like a good guard dog as my little cousins run around finding hidden eggs after they get home from church and at least one tries to berrate me for not being there.

HA!!!! That's funny! Thanks for that SWC!

It does sound very hopeful, and it brought a tear to my eye. Few things can do that. Thank you.

Nope, not even here. Cynical, yet somehow very true. Joking aside, I do subscribe to Ancient Astronaut Theory. Too many coincidences and similarities for there not to be at least a small ring of truth on this topic. Do I think they're us from the future? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm open-minded, but I also subscribe to the philosphy of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes: "It is useless to theorize before one has all the facts. One inevitably begins to twist the facts to suit his theories rather than his theories to suit the facts." As for impact on my spiritualism, there is no such impact. If they prove to be real, it doesn't change what I believe. Maybe they bring to us something we didn't think of, and our spirituality is enhanced? Who knows.

I guess I'm a sort of medium polytheist, rather than hard or soft. On one hand, I think there is only one true GOD, that impersonal energy I mentioned I call The Source. On the other hand, I think there are many GODS/GODDESSES that are manifestations of apsects of this Source, and equally as real. On that note, I revere (I think worship is a strong word here, it's more of a respectful friendship) the Irish Celtic Gods and Goddesses. The ones I've given most credence to have been The Dahgda, who is sort of like Odin in Norse myth, even has the same title of All-Father; Lugh, the Shining One, God of the Sun, War, Magic, and Many, Many Skills, like a cross between Appollo and Thor (My avi is an artist rendering of his spear, Gae Assail, which, like Odin's Spear, Gungnir, never misses); And The Morrighan, Goddess of Magic, War, and even Death. She often appears as a Raven or Crow, and sometimes even as a trio of Goddesses, similar to the Fates. She has a job that makes her sort of the Irish equivalent of the Norse Valkeries.

Congratulations. May it stay in remission, and never relapse. Blessed Be.

I answered Yes with Restrictions on both. My reasoning is thus: I'm a firm believer in "An it Harm None, Do as Ye Will." After doing my own reasearch, I've discovered that pretty much everything, with some exceptions, isn't all that harmful to yourself as long as it's in moderation. Thus, one should excercise self control. And harming another is NEVER good. But even doctors are starting to agree that a single glass of red wine every so often even while pregnant is healthy, even for the child. Not needed, and certainly harmful if you have any more than that, but, still. In moderation, certain things are acceptable. If you cannot control yourself, there is a problem. We punish murderers and rapists because they cannot control themselves. So, obviously, certain things are just so bad they shouldn't be allowed at all. But I see no difference in the raging alcolholic and the wife-beater. Both require serious psychological help because they simply cannot control themselves.

I feel I must apologize to you, Salem. I did not intend to insult or anything. I was only stating my own opinion, but I think I may have just come off as Jack-assy, rather than "friendly disagreement" as was my intention. So, again, I apologize, nothing negative was meant by it. Sometimes, things would be so much easier in person, where we can see each other's face and non-verbal cues..........

Thank you, RabbiO, I misswrote. Thanks for setting me straight. "OH, we're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. WE hear he is a wonderful wiz if ever a wiz there was. If ever a wonderful wiz there was, the Wizard of Oz is one because, because, because, because, because..........because of the wonderful things he does." Oh, If I only had a brain..........

Now, here I would disagree with you. As I stated earlier, Wizard often refers to hermetic magic done by 19th century european spiritualists. However, MAGICIAN is nothing more than an entertainer, a practitioner of the subtle arts of the Mountebank. I have some experience on that front, as stage magic and close-up illusion is a hobby of mine. Of course, this is just IMHO, just like your statement.

They do; shadows of thoughts. Both Witch and Wizard come from similar root words. Wicce or Wicca essentially means "wise one", and that's what Witch is; "One who is wise". Wizard comes from "wizened", which means wise. They are generally used for two different practices of mystical arts. Not all Wiccans are Witches. Not all Witches practice Wicca. But they are usually used synomonously. Wizard usually refers to european hermetic magic, typically from 19th century spiritualism, though its been used for centuries before. I agree with SalemWitchChild; Warlock is insulting. I don't break my oaths. I keep my promises.

Generally, Wiccans don't have a BIBLE per se, but, as mentioned before, a Book of Shadows is used to aid in the initiation of new Wiccans, holding all they need to know in terms of basics. How to raise energy, how to perform rites, how to draw certain symbols. Basically, a how-to book for the newly initiated. A personal Book of Shadows is a individual journal of your personal journey, which would presumably be used in teaching your children of the craft. My wife had three BoS's, her's, her mother's, and her grandmother's. A flood took away the older two books, but her's and my own still exist, so we're working on a third to teach our son. Of course, I myself am a sort of Wiccan-meets-Druid in terms of beliefs and practice, so that's going to influence how we teach our son, but my wife, Wiccan through and through, doesn't seem to mind. Some call the Book of Shadows to be taught from a "Grimoire" rather than a Book of Shadows, mostly in an attempt to seperate it from the personal journal Book of Shadows.

The path I follow is that of a Victorian Spiritualist, because I maintain my Christian roots yet don't deny the "pagan" aspects of it. I can tell you that, IMHO, they are all paths of getting to the same goal. The sooner they realize that, the sooner we can all get along. I've discovered that, while most religions are guilty of atrocities in the past, Christianity is responsible for more, and on-going, atrocities. But they don't see that. If they did, they'd go back to what Jesus actually taught, which was the same universal love and acceptance that all other religions preach. Well, maybe not Satanism..........

Here, here. I don't disagree at all, Atwater, And thank you for that.

Sometimes, yes. And sometimes........no. Sometimes it takes a change or multiple changes in order to get to the one belief that works for you, in which case, your steadfast adherence would indicate a satisfied mind. However, if you grew up in one belief, believing that all others are wrong because that's what you were taught, then your ability to maintain a specific belief would indicate a closed mind, bordering on brainwashing. Of course, if you grew up with one belief, have looked at others, and still maintain your beliefs while being accepting of others'; that would indicated an open and satisfied mind.

I remember a few, all through my own journies and vision quests and dreams. one was a Japanese Samurai. I get the sense that no one had yet to beat him in the ring of honor, up until his death. He was in a war, a very bloody battle. He was leading his men against some rabble, when he was killed by a stray arrow to the neck. what gets me is that I know he had two brothers, also Samurai, who died that day as well, and when I looked into my own physical younger brothers, I saw those other two Samurai. Weird. Another was a Druid in ancient Ireland. I could tell because he wore the White Robes of a Druid. Some men attacked his village, and while the defenders defended them, he tended to an ill man. One of the bandits had slipped the line and tried to attack him and the sick man. He, or I, I suppose, killed the bandit with the dirk I had, but not before taking a fatal wound to the gut. But because of my sacrifice, the sick man got well, and told stories to his children of the Druid that made them possible. And that's just a couple. Really creepy at first, but now, I look forward to having another past life revealed to me.

First of all, while I agree in principle about Hitler being flat out insane, yet only truly evil in a religious sense, You have to keep in mind that he was only a front man, and that the Nazi Party, which was around before he was, put him in power because of his charisma and insanity. If you go back in time and kill him as a child, the Nazi Party would have just found someone else. As for the insinuation that all people like him should be permanently removed, my wife has a response to that; "Anyone wishing to purify the gene pool with bleach should start with their own." Removing some people from society just because they are crazy won't change the fact that we're going to get crazy people in our society. Period. The only way to know for sure is to wipe everyone out OR, my preferred method, give them a fair trial with ample evidence, convict them of the crimes accused, then, and ONLY then, execute them, if the crime was punishable by death. We'd have one of the best justice systems in the world if it wasn't so corrupt. Of course, if you HAVE to kill someone to protect someone else, that's a different story. As for the nature of Good and Evil and Sin, Good and Evil are concepts that The Source, being the creator of everything, embodies. I, personally, don't like to think of them as Good and Evil. Rather, they are Order and Chaos. Too much Order can be akin to current concepts of Evil, but so can too much Chaos. One must find a happy medium, which is closer to what we think of as Good. Laws are good, and without them, we'd be in a very chaotic landscape. But too much Law, and you have Chaos beating down the doors to be let in, as well as what we consider Evil acts done in the name of preserving Law and Order, which is just as bad as the more Chaotic kill to survive. One man's Freedom Fighter is another man's Terrorist, you know. Sin is purely religious. A Sin is defined as the breaking of a tenet of a religion, sort of like committing a crime, and many older societies used religious tenet as their system of Law and Order. So, by today's standards, petty theft (a misdemeanor) is a "Sin"; ironic, considering "Thou Shall Not Steal". In summary, the true nature of Good and Evil is, in my humble opinion of course, entirely speculative, and can change with the times or simply by swinging the judgmental pendulum the other way. No man is the villain of his own story, and just because someone is evil by our standards doesn't mean that they think it so. I believe the True Evil lies in not being able to see all sides of an argument before making a moral choice one way or another. I, for one, can see you point of view on Hitler, however, I wouldn't have killed him myself unless he tried to kill me first, I caught him in the act, or he was put on trial and found guilty with ample evidence first. I think he was a gutless coward for killing himself (with poison, by the way, not a .45 caliber injection of lead to the brainpan) instead of facing up to his actions at trial, or at least going out fighting, like a MAN. NOOOO, he had to take cyanide. Coward. Sorry, sidetracked.