Dan56

Don't waste your time, the bible clearly states that Satan has already been judged and condemned to the Lake of Fire. So in order to get Satan back on God's team, your going to have to convince God to change his mind and reverse his judgement.... And I don't see that happening.

When someone close to us dies, it has a way of causing us to question the greater purpose to life.. I believe God tries to guide everyone to His direction. Knowing God is our purpose.. Welcome to the forum

No, I believe it has a spiritual connotation and is not referring to our physical well being. Life to the full is everlasting, not temporary. Just as you quoted 1 Peter 2:24; "“by his wounds you have been healed.” This is not literal, but in the spiritual context, we are healed. Christian aren't immune to hardship and suffering; "He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust" (Matthew 5:45). The faithful aren't necessarily rewarded in this life, God has not let you down. Christians aren't given all the gifts, I believe most of them ceased in the first century. They were specifically given to the disciples; "Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases" (Luke 9:1). Miraculous healings were administered via Apostolic Authority, and there was no apostolic succession. "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following" (Mark 16:20). Paul said; "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds" (2 Corinthians 12:12). When the apostles passed away, these signs of their office also ceased. This is both scriptural and an historical fact. It is the testimony of the early church that the extraordinary gifts of tongues, miracles, healings etc., all passed away with the death of the apostles.. "God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will" (Hebrews 2:4). These extraordinary gifts were signs given of God to confirm the word of the apostles in their preaching. They were only intended to function at the hand of the Apostles in confirmation of Christ. So don't be discouraged that God does not provide all Christians a healthy and long life. Miracles were performed to usher in the gospel and establish His Word, which is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" Ephesians 2:20).

And you just can't seem to distinguish between a scapegoat and a Savior.. Bottom line, you can't earn your way into heaven, nor can you pay for your sins and still live (sin = death). The curse of the law was satisfied in Christ, now our responsibility is to repent. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).

That's true, most Christians value an everlasting spiritual life more than our temporary physical existence in the flesh. I don't understand your second comment? But 'you' can't insure heaven for your offspring, or anyone else.. Even children don't enter heaven without accepting Christ first, that's what the millennium is for.

No, GB suggested murdering your children so they can go to heaven (ridiculous), but the law says; "Thou shalt not murder".. Life and death are God's Providence, its not a crime of omission when He renders judgement and decides when or why to take or give life.. God is not bound by American law either, He can't be guilty of depraved indifference when its impossible for God to be culpable of it. We may not understand why God would take a life, but then again, we don't understand why He gives life either. As stated, life and death fall under God's domain. its His prerogative to take and give it... God also created time, and as it passes, time takes all life.. Killing your children is not putting their welfare ahead of your own, its simply denying them life, and we can't save anyone by killing them. I believe that all remembrance of friends & family doomed to the Lake of Fire will be removed, so it won't be possible to enjoy or mourn those who are condemned. "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:4).

Now your being absurd... Murdering children would put yourself in hell.

And a Happy and Healthy New Year.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is" (Hebrews 11:6).

Good and bad can be done with or without religion.. Christianity just inspires the good, but its no guarantor. The only 'good' that a non-believer cannot do, is please God, but then they really don't care about that.

Thanks, but even with 2 million google links, most members here will blame God for everything.. God not only allows suffering and death, he ordained it for everyone born in the flesh. While its sad to see some go early, its not always God's fault. Salvation comes after a natural death, not before. Wanting to live a long life in the flesh is a natural desire, but not so important from a divine prospective. Our vantage point only allows us to see half the picture, perhaps we would envy those who departed early if we knew the glory they entered into?

If you have God, who needs religion? I simply accept the bible as the inspired Word of God.. I'm not a fan of organized religion, it inevitably pollutes a simple truth and spins it into a complicated mess..Jesus didn't bring religion into the world, he brought salvation.. Religions were already here, but they had it all wrong back then, and are still a source of confusion today. No where did Jesus start a denomination, no where did he name a church.

I differentiate religious history from Christian history. Religions/denominations are organized institutions which often implement their own man-made beliefs/laws. Just as Jesus accused the pharisees of creating their own traditions, its continued down through history, where the traditions of man pollute the simple teachings of Christ. Because "the church" has done bad things under the banner of Christianity, it does not accurately reflect anything taught be Christ. Islam has no Savior, Muslims must earn their way into paradise. Allah instructed followers to kill the enemies of Islam, while the Christian God reserves vengeance for himself. The characteristics of Mohammad and Christ are also different, one is a dead prophet, the other is the living Son of God. The Koran doesn't recognize a Messiah, particularly one which descended through Abraham/Issac. There's a few similarities, but a slew of differences since Muslims believe that the children of Abraham's firstborn (Ishmael) inherited the promise land.

Thanks for being nice, how we phrase things makes a difference Propaganda is biased, and generally spewed to support an agenda or benefit the propagandist.. How did the apostles who wrote the new testament benefit from it? What did they have to gain from it? They were persecuted and killed.. The motivation for propaganda usually has a self-serving benefit. The gospel writers profited nothing, they achieved no political advances, so that "ulterior motive" you mentioned could have simply been to relay the truth..Most people won't die to propagate a lie.

If the gospel writers were telling the truth, it wasn't just propaganda.. And the blame was assigned to some Jews, not all Jews. After all, those who wrote about it were also Jews. "Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him" (Matthew 26:3-4). "Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified" (Matthew 27: 22-23). "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (Acts 2:23). "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death" (John 11:53). "Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man " (Luke 23:4).

You have no argument.. I asked a simple question, which was to cite me one NT scripture where Christ inspired his followers to commit any acts of evil. You couldn't do so because there are none. So all the mayhem and atrocities you've observed for 2000 years could not have been inspired by anything taught by Christ. I agree that religious zealots have done some horrific things, but nothing commanded by Christ.

I remember saying the Jews were responsible for Jesus death (they demanded it), but I don't recall saying a tsunami was justified against non-Christians.. Tragedies occur, but I don't know how you associate them with 'hate in me'. You reject the message because you think its full of errors, and that's a good reason.. I accept it because I've found no errors, other than a few scribal (copyist) mistakes... Apparently, God didn't find those 'kids' as innocent as you do, He had a reason that justified death,and I agree with it. When it comes to what Christ lived and taught, I rely solely on the bible. I realize history is full of atrocious acts committed by the church in the name of Christianity, but they defy the example of Christ because they do not do as he did.

I don't remember stating any such thing.. I've always believed that it rains on the just and unjust alike, and a tsunami doesn't care what religion you are. I must of missed that part... Again, show me NT scripture that incites followers of Christ to commit pure acts of evil? When you don't like the message, its easy to reject it.. Just as when you agree with a message (book), its easy to accept it. That's the real difference between you and myself, I agree with what the bible teaches, and you have problems with it... Its not that its a stupid message that's hard to understand, but rather a message that some regard as stupid because it over-rides their own perception of what's right. Murder is murder, its killing the innocent without cause. "But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee"(Deuteronomy 19:11-13). Killing, unlike murder, is justified just about everywhere as a punishment for horrible crimes or when its done in self-defense.

Perhaps you missed the 5th commandment "Thou shalt not murder". Those who read are generally inspired to do good, not create mayhem. As I stated before, Jesus never asked anyone to kill; "Love your enemy... Pray for your enemy". Doesn't much sound like someone who was inciting any kind of violence to me!

My previous question was; "You say atrocities flow from scripture, but where in the NT are these things taught? What atrocities were specifically recommended by Christ, Paul, or Peter?". The verse you cited was not inspiring believers to commit any atrocities. It was referring to God's judgement; "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matthew 18:6). Clearly, Jesus was not telling his disciples to drown unbelievers, but was referring to a harsh punishment that would fall against those who attacked his followers (God's own vengeance). A book can be infallible, but the reader is fallible.. If a book is misinterpreted, then the reader isn't doing his job. If someone tells you a truth, but you fail to understand him, it doesn't mean the person relaying the truth is wrong. What you seem to be saying is that if you don't comprehend or misinterpret a book, that the book can't be infallible? If a message is infallible, our inability to grasp it doesn't make it fallible, but rather presumes that we are fallible. That's why the bible tells us to study and learn; "Study to shew thyself approved unto God... rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15) Properly translated, those were young men who were mocking a prophet. "And he went up from thence unto Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them" (2 Kings 2:23-24). Its important to note that these forty-two hoodlums who taunted Elisha were likely mauled by the bears, and not necessarily killed.

I think your confusing church history with Christianity... You say atrocities flow from scripture, but where in the NT are these things taught? What atrocities were specifically recommended by Christ, Paul, or Peter? Scriptural interpretation does matter, especially when a denomination, sect, or individuals are promoting things that aren't scriptural. Who was doing the burning, who labeled them heretics, and who issued the penalty? Twas notably the dominate church of the middle ages, which in my opinion, had little to do with Christianity.. Did Christ tell his disciples to burn people at the stake? No, he wept for nonbelievers, and that's the compassion of a true follower, not returning evil for evil. Again, sweeping 2000 years of church history under the rug has nothing to do with Christ.. I could list a litany of Catholic man-made rules that have no NT support. You insist on linking Catholicism to Christianity, but I see them as completely separate. The fig tree represented Israel, it was an example of Israel bearing no fruit. What happened to the tree, also happened to Israel, nothing antisemitic about any of it. Nothing bad about a prophetic illustration either. When you make the same ridiculous claims over and over, I can only respond with the same answers. You find them redundant because you don't really understand the bible.

Anyone can claim they are a Christian, but if they don't follow the teachings and example of Christ, they aren't a Christiian. "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.... He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2: 4-6). So as it says "You know them by their fruit". That's why I'm comfortable in saying that David Koresh of the Branch Davidians and Jim Jones of the People's Temple, were not Christians, but 'wolves in sheep's clothing' (Matthew 7:15). A duck can claim its an eagle, but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, its a duck.

No double standard, I applied the same yardstick to both.. A Muslim who does bad is a bad Muslim, just as a Christian or Agnostic who does bad things is bad... Bad people don't need a religion to make them bad. I personally didn't vote for Trump because he was a Christian, I simply held my nose and picked the least of 2 evils

Not a deflection in the least, there are good & bad Christians, just as there are good & bad Muslims, and I'm guessing there are even good & bad Agnostics.. Its as simple as this; "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit" (Matthew 7:18). If a Christian does not follow the teachings of Christ, they aren't a good Christian.. And if a denomination adds or subtracts to what Christ taught, they aren't truly following what they profess to believe. The existence of good Muslims doesn't mean that Islam is true anymore than the existence of good Christians means that Christianity is true.. A "good" Muslim or Christian is just an implication that a believer follows what the Koran or New Testament actually teaches, as opposed to a bad Muslim or Christian who stray from what Mohammad or Christ actually taught.

You've quoted the words of Jesus yourself; "Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16). He repeatedly warned against fake Christians; "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God" ( 1 John 4:1). And his response to hypocrites; "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23). You may not see any difference, but Catholics and Mormons don't believe the same thing, and most of what the Klan spews is not indicative of anything Christ taught. A real Christian simply follows the example of Christ.. Many stray and create religions, denominations, and radical sects that are born of man-made ideologies. Lumping all Christians or Muslims into one group is like saying that all women are identical.. It just ain't true.