Fawzo
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I have a copy of Paramahansa Yogananda's two volune explanations of the Gita. It is an interesting interpretation written before his death in 1952. Self Ralization Fellowship -- the organization founded by Paramahansa Yogananda -- has also produced an abridged version of the commentaries which I have not seen yet.
There are numeral commentaries on the Gita by different teachers. Each teacher comments from the perspective of their particular school of thought. I have enjoyed the Gita by letting it speak to me; sometimes I write commentaries that have personal meaning.
Hermano Luis
Thanks for the additional info Luis. I plan on diving into it next week when I'm on vacation. This week too much preholiday stuff going on.
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Good choice! The author of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita takes his metaphysial inspiration from the Vedic Upanishads. My English version of the Upanishads is by Eknath Easwaran.
Hermano Luis
I wound up with a Copy of the Gita explained by Paramhansa Yogananda and ordered the Upanishads one.
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The war image has created among some Hindus and students of spiritual literature an obstacle, and it is understandable. One has to read beyond the first chapter in order to understand that the Gita is not a book about war. We could call it a book about "Dharma" (social or spiritual duties). I strongly recommend the Gita as translated by Eknath Easwaran; it is a good translation of the Gita with a general introduction and an introduction to each of the 18 chapters. At the end of the book it also has a series of notes about concepts in the Gita.
Eknath Easwaran has something to say about the Gita and war in his general introduction to the translation of the Gita:
"To those who take this dramatic setting as part of the spiritual instruction and get entangled in the question of the Gita justifying war, Gandhi had a practical answer: just base your life on the Gita sincerely and systematically and see if you find killing or even hurtin others compatible with its teachings."
One last thing, I have read the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu, and there is no relatioship between it and the Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
Hermano Luis
Thanks Luis!! Darn my library doesn't have a copy but they do have Essence of the Upanishads by Eknath Easwaran which sounds fascinating and I will try to get that tomorrow.
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I read the Bhagavad Gita many years ago as a very young man when I was quite clueless about spirituality.
Emalpaiz could you recommend a version that contains a commentary that would help me better see into the imagery and mystery of the work. To be honest I have shunned rereading it all these years because of the war imagery. The same reason I have not read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.
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Thanks Bluecat!
That woman with the candles on her head was really hot!
My favorite Christmas Eve besides the time I swear I saw Santa and his Sleigh and renderer's fly over my roof as a kid was when I sang in the choir at midnight mass. The words Santa Lucia are very familiar to me but I don't remember any such procession as a young Saintly Catholic. I do remember the Virgin Mary one that Sky referenced.
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There is a $6000 reward for her murder also now being offered. If she is pardoned they better get her and her family out of there secretivly and quickly.
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The (sometimes) Right Rev Rainbow apologizes for the bold face type in his subsequent response above, following the quoted passages box. I wasn't trying to be overly emphatic or anything. I was just typing with the bold thingy on and did not reduce it back to regular type. Dont want nobody to think I have to yell around here.
If you did feel like yelling I'm sure you would be more than entitled to. Darn and I was feeling like a special reprobate because I thought you were yelling at me
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I have never witnessed more fervent attempts to discredit the Bible, as though, if that could be done, its demise as the Word of God would wipe out Judaism and Christianity because then we would have nothing sacred to base our beliefs on.
From my perspective I think it is quite clear without any doubt that the whole Book is not the Word of God any more than any other of the other great sacred scriptures of the world.
The Vedas, Upanishads, Dharmapada, Tao te Ching, Gospel of Thomas, Course in Miracles and a plethora of other writings by wonderful spiritual humans.
These other works don't justify killing humans for things like disobedience, working the Sabbath, adultery, beating slaves because they are your property etc etc. Innocent bloodshed does little to appease the Divine in these other wonderful works.
The thoughts and efforts put forth by humans aren't deemed unworthy of pleasing the Divine in these other works and humans themselves are held responsible for their own actions.
Judaism and Christianity would not disappear. People will recognize the allegory and myth and human influence and begin to look deeper for the pearls and gems of truth which still shine through the muck that has been heaped upon them through human agenda and influence. The theology could possibly become so polished and shine so bright the whole world may be drawn to it.
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Fawzo, you old reprobate, name me one sacred writing other than the Bible that has been criticized here even half as much. Im not talking about individuals and their own take on it, I mean the book by itself.
PS: I am enjoying my little geodes, thank you. Interesting when you crack open what appears to be a worthless rock, there is a sparkly treasure inside, you old wretch.
What other book that is represented here at ULC by its foillowers is spoken of as the only Truth and all other scriptures are lost or of Satan and those who have belief in any book except the Bible are ignorant toads?
So the Bible gets rightfully criticized more than any other work here for this very reason.
The only other person who came nigh to this level of ignorance was Dattaswami and he too created quite a stir.
1) Lost - No you're in Baltimore.
2) Sinful - G-d will forgive you for being a Ravens fan.
3) Wretch - Easily solved. I shall wave my miraculous cloth, in vibrant black and gold, and bring the light of the Three Rivers to your benighted soul.
Ah, salt rubbed in the wound after a very painful experience.
I predict you shall need that miracoulous cloth to dry a flood of tears after the AFC championship game when the Purple and Black get their G-dly revenge and ascend to the Supreme Bowl game.
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I do agree with Robin, that on this forum, the Bible, and subsequently those who believe in its inspiration, seems to be, IMO, the most favored to be negatively criticized.
I don't think the people who believe in its inspiration are criticized any more than others, though I may be wrong. I think those who believe and profess that the only way to truth and inspiration comes through the Bible, now they get criticized and I feel rightly so. But what else should they expect from such a lost sinful wretch as me
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If one does not have faith in their praying, nor trust in God to answer their prayers, they might as well pray, then, to a milk carton. We don't test God, we trust Him and we know, when we ask, He hears us.
I feel the key is praying within the stream of consciousness that is God's will. Going against the stream no matter what one's level of faith makes it tough!
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Thank you, but please remember that the effective fervent prayer of a righteous [man] avails much!
How true is that in real world scenarios and what constitutes a "right-use man"?
In a test versus an empty milk carton prayers to God were answered as often as prayers to the milk carton.
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חג הנרות
חנוכה
חג שמח
The Festival of Lights
Hanukkah
A Joyous Holiday
May we each rededicate ourselves to be open to the light of knowledge, the light of truth, the light of love and the light of peace.
I hope your Hanukkah wish comes to fruition my friend!!!
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I'll certainly add my prayers and best wishes for Jazzy!
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The prayers help hasten us to better days, but have faith that we do seem steadily headed in that direction.
Maybe we need running shoes!
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Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
The women folk are busy cooking and cleaning, plenty of food and football, two days off of work ... does it get any better?!?!
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I don't remember where I picked-up that quote, but it was just a coincidence that you previously quoted nearly the same thing. I think the only quote I stole from you was; "When things get tense around here, and they do, I ask myself 3 questions: Was I on time? Am I doing the job? Am I getting along with the people? If the answer to all 3 questions is 'Yes," then I relax." A prescription for happiness no doubt..
Its good to see that at least 3 members on this forum consider themselves happy. I almost feel guilty for not being depressed and miserable
One thing that really makes me happy is agitating Dan and Coolhand. I'm not happy though with the idea that those actions makes me so very happy so now I wonder if I am really happy or just confused
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Well, we're talking about centuries of early church father corruption, so its hard not to jump around when weeding out all the culprits. To keep it simple, Origen is right up there with Eusebius as a heretic imo. Bottomline, I personally don't trust the corrupt Alexandrian texts. I believe the reliable text stream comes from the Antioch line. My original purpose was to simply explain my preference for the KJV, because it was produced from the Majority text (Masoretic Text & Textus Receptus) and not a product influenced by the church fathers.
This guy pretty much summarizes how I feel about it; David Berman
And here's another site I just found that crystallizes my thoughts on the subject; TEXTUAL CORRUPTIONS
Dan the first link has some errors and it seems as if the guy doesn't know what he is talking about.
For instance:
The Old Latin Vulgate was from the Textus Receptus and it was not until 1546 that it was "revised" by Jerome into what is now called The "Latin VulgateThe Vulgate was used to fill in the missing pieces of the Byzantine manuscripts to help create the Textus Receptus and the second link wasn't even worth reading when it starts off with there is Satanic attack
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If I'm staying in the Now I'm estaticly happy unwrapping each present each moment brings me. When my mind wanders and takes me into dark areas of the past or shadowy areas of the future my happiness wanes.
Basically overall I would say that I'm a happy person.
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Didn't like this part?
..wonder why?
This is the NEW FUNDAMENTALISM.....you gotta love that....lol.
Would you think these people were less informed or knowledgable then the 54 learned men who worked on the King James Version or Erasmus who created the Textus Receptus? If I remember correctly all 54 learned men were Anglicans.
I would say these people have access to way more knowledge regarding such things just from the sheer volue of information available to them? Unless of course you feel none where filled with the Spirit of God. Are we sure any of King James men or even if Erasmus himself was. Wy would Erasmus need 6 Byzantine manuscripts and sections of the Vulgate to do his job if he were Spirit filled. The process he used seems to be of pure human cognitive abilities just as these folks used.
I actually was hoping someone would bring that up so I could make the points above.
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That's pretty much the end-all argument for bible non-believers. They don't agree with Paul, so he had to have been a fake apostle....Peter agreed with Paul and endorsed his letters? So obviously, anything Peter wrote had to have been a forgery. Mark's gospel was tampered with, John didn't write The Gospel of John or Revelation, etc. etc. The problem is that after you throw out everything you don't agree with, there's nothing left... Which means liberals really believe in nothing biblical.
That is not quite true Dan. One is still left with a historical human named Yeshua ben Yosepf aka Jesus, who inspired people in ways that brought about the stories.
This transformation is most evident in those who like Peter who cowardly denied and abandoned Jesus but were later transformed into fearless men and women by the life and death of Jesus. Something surely happened back then but we have to dig deep to find it. For twenty years after his death until Paul wrote Corinthians the story of Christ grew and was retold orally in Jewish Synagouges where evidence was sought in the cherished scriptures to see how Jesus might fit in and these people could explain their fantastic experiences with the man Jesus. They used the only words and things they knew to try and convey that message to us. Their Scriptures retold with Jesus as the hero. It is clear Matthew and Mark turn Jesus into the new Jewish hero, a combination of Moses and Elijah.
Spong does an excellent layout of how the stories in the Gospel of Mark coincide with the Jewish Liturgical calendar for 6 months and why Matthew and Luke picked up the pen to add the other 6 months worth of Sabbaths and stories. Matthew for a Jewsih Audience and Luke for Gentiles and dispersed Jews .
Each chapter and story theme in the Gospel of Mark coincides with a Sabbath and Jewish Holiday of the year. He gives some pretty good evidence.
Some people are seekers of truth no matter where it leads them and others are seeking for security within their adopted truth no matter what evidence comes knocking on their doors. That is why we still have folks who believe the earth is only 6000 years old and when given mountains of irrefutable contradictions and errors from within the pages of the Bible do backflips to attempt at justifying them.
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Thought I would throw this in here to stir the pot a bit from Wikipedia on the results and findings of the Jesus Seminar.
Seminar proceedingsThe Jesus Seminar, like the translation committees who created the King James Version and the Revised Standard Version of the Bible and the Novum Testamentum Graece, chose voting as the most efficient means of determining consensus in an assembled group. The system also lent itself to publicity, which the Seminar actively pursued.[citation needed]
The Fellows used a "bead system" to vote on the authenticity of about 500 statements and events. The color of the bead represented how sure the Fellow was that a saying or act was or was not authentic.
- Red beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did say the passage quoted, or something very much like the passage. (3 Points)
- Pink beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus probably said something like the passage. (2 Points)
- Grey beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage, but it contains Jesus' ideas. (1 Point)
- Black beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage—it comes from later admirers or a different tradition. (0 Points)
The consensus position was determined by the average weighted score, rather than by simple majority. This meant that all opinions were reflected in the decisions. The voting system means that the reader can second-guess each vote. The Five Gospels defines not only the result of the vote (red, pink, gray, or black) but also how many polls were necessary to reach a conclusion (if any were necessary at all) and why various fellows chose to vote in different ways.
Attendees, however, did more than vote. They met semi-annually to debate the papers presented. Some verses required extensive debate and repeated votes.
[edit] Sayings of Jesus
The first findings of the Jesus Seminar were published in 1993 as The Five Gospels: The Search for the Authentic Words of Jesus.[3]
[edit] Criteria for authenticity
Like other scholars of the historical Jesus, the Jesus Seminar treats the gospels as fallible historical artifacts, containing both authentic and inauthentic material. Like their colleagues, the fellows used several criteria for determining whether a particular saying or story is authentic, including the criteria of multiple attestation and embarrassment. Among additional criteria used by the fellows are the following:
- Orality: According to current estimates, the gospels weren't written until decades after Jesus' death. Parables, aphorisms, and stories were passed down orally (30 - 50 CE). The fellows judged whether a saying was a short, catchy pericope that could possibly survive intact from the speaker's death until decades later when it was first written down. If so, it's more likely to be authentic. For example, "turn the other cheek".
- Irony: Based on several important narrative parables (such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan), the fellows decided that irony, reversal, and frustration of expectations were characteristic of Jesus' style. Does a pericope present opposites or impossibilities? If it does, it's more likely to be authentic. For example, "love your enemies".
- Trust in God: A long discourse attested in three gospels has Jesus telling his listeners not to fret but to trust in the Father. Fellows looked for this theme in other sayings they deemed authentic. For example, "Ask – it'll be given to you".
[edit] Criteria for inauthenticity
The seminar looked for several characteristics that, in their judgment, identified a saying as inauthentic, including self-reference, leadership issues, and apocalyptic themes.
- Self-reference: Does the text have Jesus referring to himself? For example, "I am the way, and I am the truth, and I am life" (John 14:1-14).
- Framing Material: Are the verses used to introduce, explain, or frame other material, which might itself be authentic? For example, in Luke, the "red" parable of the good samaritan is framed by scenes about Jesus telling the parable, and the seminar deemed Jesus' framing words in these scenes to be "black".
- Community Issues: Do the verses refer to the concerns of the early Christian community, such as instructions for missionaries or issues of leadership? For example, Peter as "the rock" on which Jesus builds his church (Matthew 16:17-19).
- Theological Agenda: Do the verses support an opinion or outlook that is unique to the gospel, possibly indicating redactor bias? For example, the prophecy of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46) was voted black because the fellows saw it as representing Matthew's agenda of speaking out against unworthy members of the Christian community.
[edit] Authentic sayings, as determined by the seminar
The Red sayings (with % indicating the weighted average of those in agreement), given in the Seminar's own "Scholar's Version" translation, are:
1. Turn the other cheek (92%): Mt 5:39, Lk6:29a 2. Coat & shirt: Mt5:40 (92%), Lk6:29b (90%) 3. Congratulations, poor!: Lk6:20b (91%), Th54 (90%), Mt5:3 (63%) 4. Second mile (90%): Mt5:41 5. Love your enemies: Lk6:27b (84%), Mt5:44b (77%), Lk6:32,35a (56%) (compare to black rated "Pray for your enemies": POxy1224 6:1a; Didache 1:3; Poly-Phil 12:3; and "Love one another": John 13:34-35, Romans 13:8, 1 Peter 1:22) 6. Leaven: Lk13:20–21 (83%), Mt13:33 (83%), Th96:1–2 (65%) 7. Emperor & God (82%): Th100:2b–3, Mk12:17b, Lk20:25b, Mt22:21c (also Egerton Gospel 3:1-6) 8. Give to beggars (81%): Lk6:30a, Mt5:42a, Didache1:5a 9. Good Samaritan (81%): Lk10:30–35 10. Congrats, hungry!: Lk6:21a (79%), Mt5:6 (59%), Th69:2 (53%) 11. Congrats, sad!: Lk6:21b (79%), Mt5:4 (73%) 12. Shrewd manager (77%): Lk16:1–8a 13. Vineyard laborers (77%): Mt20:1–15 14. Abba, Father (77%): Mt6:9b, Lk11:2c 15. The Mustard Seed : Th20:2–4 (76%), Mk4:30–32 (74%), Lk13:18–19 (69%), Mt13:31–32 (67%)
[edit] Some probably authentic sayings, as determined by the seminar
The top 15 (of 75) Pink sayings are:
16. On anxieties, don't fret (75%): Th36, Lk12:22–23, Mt6:25 17. Lost Coin (75%): Lk15:8–9 18. Foxes have dens: Lk9:58 (74%), Mt8:20 (74%), Th86 (67%) 19. No respect at home: Th31:1 (74%), Lk4:24(71%), Jn4:44 (67%), Mt13:57 (60%), Mk6:4 (58%) 20. Friend at midnight (72%): Lk11:5–8 21. Two masters : Lk16:13a, Mt6:24a (72%); Th47:2 (65%) 22. Treasure: Mt13:44 (71%), Th109 (54%) 23. Lost sheep: Lk15:4–6 (70%), Mt18:12–13 (67%), Th107 (48%) 24. What goes in: Mk7:14–15 (70%), Th14:5 (67%), Mt15:10-11 (63%) 25. Corrupt judge (70%): Lk18:2–5 26. Prodigal son (70%): Lk15:11–32 27. Leave the dead (see also But to bring a sword, Nazirite): Mt8:22 (70%), Lk9:59–60 (69%) 28. Castration for Heaven (see also Origen, Antithesis of the Law) (70%): Mt19:12a 29. By their fruit (69%) (see Antinomianism): Mt7:16b, Th45:1a, Lk6:44b (56%) 30. The dinner party, The wedding celebration: Th64:1–11 (69%), Lk14:16-23 (56%), Mt22:2-13 (26%)
[edit] Overall reliability of the five gospels
The Seminar concluded that of the various statements in the "five gospels" attributed to Jesus, only about 18% of them were likely uttered by Jesus himself (red or pink). The Gospel of John fared worse than the synoptic gospels, with nearly all its passages attributed to Jesus being judged inauthentic.[16] The Gospel of Thomas includes just two unique sayings that the seminar attributes to Jesus: the empty jar (97) and the assassin (98). Every other authentic or probably authentic saying has parallels in the synoptics.
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Just to qualify your statement. It is not just Paul. I do not believe the bible is the word of God. There are things that speak to the heart and I believe that is God speaking but there is much that is written that I think is just evil and tribal religion. Hence, I do not see the bible text as the word of God but that which is spoken to the heart. It is the heart that changes a person and not the text.
Spong doesn't just think Paul is not the word of God either. From what I've read so far he feels as if the Gospel of Mark is a Liturgical work based on 1 Cor 15 3:4 Mark then went back into Scripture and created his narrative based largely on Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53.
Corinthians was the earliest writing about the death of Jesus and as Paul didn't really expound more than that on it, he feels Mark took up the pen to take up the task.
I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said.4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. 1 Cor 15:3-4 (NLT)
He also feels that the birth narratives are Myth and the Miracles are not historical events either, and it is very likely that Judas never was an actual person.
I can't wait to get to the rest of the book to see what he does believe about Jesus and why he still claims to be a Christian.
I can't say that I agree with him 100% so far but he does make some interesting arguments that do seem plausible and gives one pause.
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Done deal my friend.....I'll send her positive thoughts and energies tonight during my meditation and during my hike in the morning.
Merry Solstice!
in Prayer & Good Wishes Archive
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How'd you like the eclipse with the Solstice, some combo! Any spiritual significance in that for yourself?