Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Hello, Pete.

🙄

Deists Uniting with Christians against Atheists

You make some good points. I really like your sperm donor analogy. It's spot on. As for the Bible stories: I prefer Norse mythology. The plots are much better. The characters are more interesting, better developed and way more believable. Plus, the characters have real development over time -- and they're really good, entertaining stories. It's a real shame that the Bible stories aren't that good. I'm still inclined to see Deism in opposition to institutional religion. Thomas Paine, author of Age of Reason, was one of the driving forces behind the American revolution. King George was head of the English church. The colonists had to oppose Church and Monarch as a package. Some of that attitude seems to be persisting. That there is no Devine Right of Kings to rule -- or for the clergy to lead, or even be socially prominent. The enemy isn't God. It's the Church and the Clergy and the Scripture.

I was mistaken and I stand corrected. Deism is much more harshly anti-religion than Atheism. Atheism is only an absence of religion. Deism is opposed to religion. An alternative.

The self described "Dandi-Lion"? Interesting. Only Dan actually knows.

I never discussed Dan's avatar with him. I expect it has something to do with Christian symbolism. The whole King of beasts thing -- throne -- crown -- roses. I minored in English Literature. Christian symbolism is extensive -- and Dan has his issues. If I had to guess, I suspect it has something to do with The Witch, The Lion and the Wardrobe by C. S. Lewis. The great Protestant theologian. Or maybe Dan just likes lions.

Are you asking me to support -- I don't know -- with objective, verifiable evidence? What do you want? What part of -- I don't know -- are you contesting?

To my understanding: Deism posits a Creator God, who got everything started -- then lost interest and wandered off. No prayer. No Scripture. No study. No revelation. No intervention. No help. No hindrance. No fear. This may be unfair. It's my take. The advantages: You get to say -- "Yes, of course I believe in God". You get to take any kind of oath or Pledge to God -- without having to explain anything. If people want to make assumptions about the nature of Deist belief -- that's their problem. Really, it takes so little time out of your day. Is being a Deist better than being an Agnostic? On reflection, no. It isn't. Repeat after me. "I don't believe. I don't disbelieve. I don't care." Wasn't that simple? I have an ethical obligation to be truthful. On reflection, I have no problem with reciting obvious nonsense as part of public ceremony. Over the years, I have been called up many times for jury duty. It's always the same thing. They say -- Raise your right hand. I raise my hand. They recite the oath ending with -- so help me God. By the time I have a chance to think about it -- it's over. Really. Am I to argue with a bored clerk who just wants to get it over with? That's all I want at that point. To get it over with. Really. It takes so little time out of my day. Is being a Deist any better than being an Atheist? Just answer honestly. No. I don't believe. Pledges and oaths? It's not your problem. If they care about truthfulness, they shouldn't insist on the magic words. Really. It takes so little time. In purely pragmatic terms, Deism is a proto Atheism. It's better to claim belief, than to face down a crazy judge, an inquisitor, or a lunatic mob. In less dramatic terms -- to get through a family Thanksgiving without drama. I'm getting to be an old dog. I would rather be happy than worry about being right. There are some hills NOT worth dying for.

You are mistaken. I know a lot about things that interest me. Things that matter a lot. Supernatural things for which we have no reliable information -- trivial things like God -- not so much. I have plenty of content. Content that matters. Simply, not your content. About God? I don't know, I don't care, and I'm bored with silly arguments. In particular, I'm bored with arguing with your faith statements. So very bored with your faith. It wouldn't be so bad, if you were capable of learning. You continue to insist that "Atheists believe in nothing." That Agnostics "know nothing". I have tried to explain why this is not so. It is futile. You have your own point of view -- and you have no understanding of any other perspective. Neither do you care.

God Belief in Vedanta

Deism Where to post on Deism? It's not Christian. It's not Atheist. I put it here. We are a big tent church. Deism is too important to ignore.

Alright.

Perhaps a change of profession? You could be the man who circumcises Jewish boys.

We can simply take the story at face value, then look around for confirmation. 1. Every ecco system -- every habitat -- all of them -- were destroyed. 2. All plants and all animals drowned; so the air became unbreathable. No more oxygen-carbon dioxide cycle. 3. The plant eaters from the ark all starved. All the predators from the ark starved. There was no food for any of them. 4. The Earth died, beyond any ability to recover. Now, we look for confirmation.

Without getting stuck on the labels; it all boils down to something simple. 1. We have no objective, verifiable, facts about God. Or gods. 2. A god which can not be demonstrated to exist, doesn't matter. Even if that god actually exists. 3. Arguments are not evidence. Arguments are arguments. If they offer an argument, it's because they have no evidence. 4. Faith is not facts. When we have facts, we don't need faith. There we are. Stay out of other people's rabbit holes. Nothing you find down there, will improve your life.