Jonathan H. B. Lobl

What would that achieve? If free will is illusory, it follows that you are subject to the same illusion.

Obviously, it feels like I have free will. Not quite the same as knowing. Such is the nature of illusion.

In my philosophy -- we can't call this science -- when I go back into the past, I become part of the past. Without variance. Things unfold as they always have. If the past is fixed, then so is the future. That makes free will illusory.

Since you asked so nicely A thought experiment: I climb into my time machine and visit you a year ago. Your younger self thinks he has free will. Since the past is not subject to change, your past self is mistaken. I climb back into my time machine and advance two years. That is, one year from today. Your future self also thinks he has free will. Odd, since I have seen this error before. I return to the present. You still think you have free will. Odd, since I have seen your future. If the past can't be changed, neither can your future. That means you don't have free will. That is what I meant by temporal mechanics. Not that it matters. Whether we have free will or the illusion of free will, we live our lives the same way. On a side note, God being ever present in every time and place, means that God also has no free will. God knowing every decision that God will ever make, also means that God has no free will.

Can you cite any examples from history, of Polytheists killing for their gods? Politics, power, resources, etc.; but not for their gods.

You do not understand temporal mechanics as well as you think you do. Your answer is irrelevant.

It is only superstition if the charms don't work.

No.

I don't share that outlook. Monotheism is the affliction that keeps on giving. Polytheists tend to be mellow. Another god or 10,000. What do they care? A world outlook with no gods or god at all can also be mellow. If another group chooses to have strange beliefs; that is their problem. Monotheism is clearly the source of conflict and intolerance in the world. One God, one faith and one truth. Your "single ideology." Woe unto all others for they are in darkness. If they won't be persuaded peacefully, then by force. This much is the evidence of history. Even with each other, the Monotheisms have difficulty living in peace.

This much is true. God is not my priority. For the rest, your faith has no application to my life. Your faith does not define me.

That's good enough for me. The rest is detail. It is good to have friends on the path. No matter how different the paths are.

No. That concludes your test. If we are finished with that bit of nonsense; we can begin. If the past is fixed and unchangeable; the future may also be fixed and unchangeable. If the past is not fixed, it is possible that reality is constantly being undermined and changed. That is the basis for my question about free will.

Why must we have a god at all? Any god? Do we need a god or is it only a cultural habit?

It is good to be open to evidence. Past a point, there must be evidence, if we are not going to be stuck on belief. I do not find that belief, by itself, is adequate.

Beyond imagination, there is bias confirmation. Belief can become illusion. As to the reality of reincarnation, I plead ignorance. I don't know.

Presumably Satan has no Problems with faith or belief. Presumably Satan knows how the story ends. He's had enough time to read the Book. Presumably, Satan is not a complete idiot. I find the plot implausible. The character interaction is not reasonable.

Isn't that the purpose of prayer? To get a different outcome from God on something? Anything? God must know all outcomes in advance. It goes with being all knowing. If God can't or won't make a change in outcome -- any outcome -- why pray?

God has a team? You're suggesting the war between good and evil as fact.

Yes. Then there was a brief side discussion about free will -- or the illusion of free will. Back to topic. If God is all powerful and all knowing and permits such things to go on -- we have a display of what American law calls "depraved indifference." So much for God being all good.

None of them even mention issues of temporal mechanics. If the past is fixed and immutable, then so is the future. I think. Maybe.

I don't know if I have free will, or the illusion of free will. Does it matter which is the case?

Yes, if there is a guiding intelligence involved. The Law of Cause and Effect can be understood in a more mechanical way. If I step on a thumbtack with my barefoot, I will suffer. Not because God -- or some other agent wills it -- but because life involves suffering. In this case, the lesson is to be aware of where I am stepping. We don't always get the lesson that we want. Such is life. Constant learning.

I am touched by the depth of your grief. Alas, I have nothing useful to contribute. I am Agnostic. I'm not pushing anything. This is probably not a path that you are considering. I only point out -- there is an alternative to faith -- If that is what you want. Now or later.

Various Atheists have speculated on what it means to go to Heaven. To be truly and fully in the presence of God for all of eternity. You know. God. Mean, spiteful, jealous, vengeful, vain, vindictive, petty -- constantly needing to be praised, worshiped, loved and adored. Always knowing every thought you have. EVERY THOUGHT. Always in THE PRESENCE. Always. Forever and ever and ever. Always in God's presence. How bad can Hell be? It has to be better than that.

Remember Pascal's Wager? It is the deep, soul crushing terror of eternal damnation, that is at the heart of Christian faith. As it plainly states in Proverbs "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." Pity the poor Christian Fundamentalist. They are as much prey as they are hunter.