Agnostic Theist

[Pete]

😥

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

😥

 

 

I understand.  Dan's comments are like a mosquito bite.  It's trivial but it itches.  

 

When you have to vent, talk to me.

 

[Pete]

I should know better. It has happened many times with someone being a pain and then when you challenge them they run for a moderator. If this was facebook you could just block them so they could not see each others comments. Hey Ho! That is life.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

43 minutes ago, Pete said:

I should know better. It has happened many times with someone being a pain and then when you challenge them they run for a moderator. If this was facebook you could just block them so they could not see each others comments. Hey Ho! That is life.

 

 

 

Good.  You're feeling better.

 

[RevBogovac]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I should know better. It has happened many times with someone being a pain and then when you challenge them they run for a moderator. If this was facebook you could just block them so they could not see each others comments. Hey Ho! That is life.

 

I tend to agree with the mod on this because religions thrive under persecution. It's better to let them vent their beliefs and opinions out in the open for everyone to see and decide for themselves whether they are believable and honourable. Although mod also has to understand that venting a belief or opinion that is proven ridiculous also opens up the one stating those opinions to ridicule (like claiming Noah's flood happend literally and the god of the bible is a loving god)

 

I tend to agree with Jonathan's stance on this; it is insane to (repeatedly) argue with someone who is so rigid not to be able to understand basic things like:

 

On 1/19/2021 at 9:44 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Not believing in God, is not the same as believing in nothing.

 

Not caring about God, is not the same as caring about nothing.

 

These distinctions don't require genius.  It seems they do exceed your capacity.

 

 

 

So best to let them out in the open and just question the basics openly... 

 

I know, I - for one - have learned a lot by your discussions (and have reassessed my orthodox christianity accordingly).

 

Thank you all for that!

[Pete]

I have no concern with him believing what he does. It's the constant riding comments that attempt to put us in some little box like "atheists/agnostics believe in nothing" and " I have a belief that gives me eternal life" . It said as though these are qualified fact rather than an unsubstantiated belief. It maybe a belief but there is no proof of that. 

He still does not get that atheists/agnostics although see no evidence for a deity or see the bible as evidence, we are not all the same. Any one who reads bronze age stories from differing cultures knows our ancestors believed in some pretty wacky stuff and very little of it holds true in todays light. It is hardly something that can put down or dismiss modern day science. Yet here we are being berated by such ignorance and dismissed without a shred of evidence. 

It is wearing after a while.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

I have no concern with him believing what he does. It's the constant riding comments that attempt to put us in some little box like "atheists/agnostics believe in nothing" and " I have a belief that gives me eternal life" . It said as though these are qualified fact rather than an unsubstantiated belief. It maybe a belief but there is no proof of that. 

He still does not get that atheists/agnostics although see no evidence for a deity or see the bible as evidence, we are not all the same. Any one who reads bronze age stories from differing cultures knows our ancestors believed in some pretty wacky stuff and very little of it holds true in todays light. It is hardly something that can put down or dismiss modern day science. Yet here we are being berated by such ignorance and dismissed without a shred of evidence. 

It is wearing after a while.

 

 

I have an old bit of folk wisdom for you.

 

"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  The attempt is doomed to fail, and it annoys the pig."

 

     

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, RevBogovac said:

 

I tend to agree with the mod on this because religions thrive under persecution. It's better to let them vent their beliefs and opinions out in the open for everyone to see and decide for themselves whether they are believable and honourable. Although mod also has to understand that venting a belief or opinion that is proven ridiculous also opens up the one stating those opinions to ridicule (like claiming Noah's flood happend literally and the god of the bible is a loving god)

 

I tend to agree with Jonathan's stance on this; it is insane to (repeatedly) argue with someone who is so rigid not to be able to understand basic things like:

 

 

So best to let them out in the open and just question the basics openly... 

 

I know, I - for one - have learned a lot by your discussions (and have reassessed my orthodox christianity accordingly).

 

Thank you all for that!

 

 

Dan is always ready to define Atheism.  We are the people who believe in nothing.       

 

Dan is always ready to define Agnosticism.  We are the people who know nothing.     

 

Dan takes particular joy in defining Apatheism.  We are the people who care about nothing.     

 

Since Dan takes so much pleasure in defining my world view -- it is only fair that I define his.     

 

Evangelical Christianity is a fear based death cult.     

 

I say this, with the same concern for Dan's feelings; that Dan has for my concerns.  None at all.  

 

Dan gets to proclaim what is true, and what is false, because he is the Christian.  Because God.     

 

I'm calling bull crap on all of it.  Because the days of deferential kissing Christian ass are over.     

 

And no.  I don't have to argue with Dan.  I have nothing to prove.  Because even the question of God's existence is meaningless and irrelevant.     

 

Hmmm.  Did I say that out loud?  Yes.  I did.     

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

Dan is always ready to define Atheism.  We are the people who believe in nothing.       

 

Dan is always ready to define Agnosticism.  We are the people who know nothing.     

 

Dan takes particular joy in defining Apatheism.  We are the people who care about nothing.     

 

Since Dan takes so much pleasure in defining my world view -- it is only fair that I define his.     

 

Evangelical Christianity is a fear based death cult.     

 

I say this, with the same concern for Dan's feelings; that Dan has for my concerns.  None at all.  

 

Dan gets to proclaim what is true, and what is false, because he is the Christian.  Because God.     

 

I'm calling bull crap on all of it.  Because the days of deferential kissing Christian ass are over.     

 

And no.  I don't have to argue with Dan.  I have nothing to prove.  Because even the question of God's existence is meaningless and irrelevant.     

 

Hmmm.  Did I say that out loud?  Yes.  I did.     

No disagreement on any of that.

The only reason Dan is acknowledged at all is because of this forum. If he preached this in the street I would just walk by and consider it another nutter. Here we cannot be that rude and we are being forced to listen to it. No wonder it is uncomfortable and especially if he has permission to attack our beliefs and we are asked to respect his as he does it. hey ho!

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

24 minutes ago, Pete said:

No disagreement on any of that.

The only reason Dan is acknowledged at all is because of this forum. If he preached this in the street I would just walk by and consider it another nutter. Here we cannot be that rude and we are being forced to listen to it. No wonder it is uncomfortable and especially if he has permission to attack our beliefs and we are asked to respect his as he does it. hey ho!

 

 

In America, we have "freedom of speech".  Let us be clear.  There are limits.  We can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  Still, we can say what we want.  This does not place anybody under obligation to listen or pay attention.  We can ignore Dan.  No response is required.  We can hear him.  There is no obligation to stop and listen.  Much like the nutter street preacher.

 

You're the one with a brain.  Don't get banned.

 

[Pete]

I do not want to be banned. Neither do I want Dan removed from the forum. I just wish we could talk sometimes without the constant interjection of my bronze age collection of myths says this and therefore you are wrong and I am so right and you need to accept this too or some nasty thing will happen you in the unproven afterlife brought about by some imaginary deity who he speaks for. Respect has to go two ways. So far I do not see this.

[Pete]

Maybe it is lockdown fever. Due to health risks I have had to isolate since March and had to avoid everyone. Just tired of it all. 

[RevBogovac]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Maybe it is lockdown fever. Due to health risks I have had to isolate since March and had to avoid everyone. Just tired of it all. 

 

 

Oh man... that's tough. Don't get too worked up. We're here for you. We hear you (OK, not all of us... 😆).

 

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

I do not want to be banned. Neither do I want Dan removed from the forum. I just wish we could talk sometimes without the constant interjection of my bronze age collection of myths says this and therefore you are wrong and I am so right and you need to accept this too or some nasty thing will happen you in the unproven afterlife brought about by some imaginary deity who he speaks for. Respect has to go two ways. So far I do not see this.

 

 

It is the nature of fear based content.  You know all the horrible things that you used to believe.  Well, Dan is still stuck with those beliefs.  How awful for him.  Evangelical faith is an affliction.

 

It's not your problem.  Also, not mine.

 

When I was a Home Health Aide, I made an astonishing discovery.  My clients who were very religious, were afraid of death.  I don't want to say that my secular patients wanted to die.  They didn't.  But they were able to come to terms with their mortality.  It was the religious clients who were afraid to die.

 

It's counter intuitive.  It goes against the religious narrative.  But there we are.

 

 

 

[RevBogovac]

33 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

It is the nature of fear based content.  You know all the horrible things that you used to believe.  Well, Dan is still stuck with those beliefs.  How awful for him.  Evangelical faith is an affliction.

 

It's not your problem.  Also, not mine.

 

When I was a Home Health Aide, I made an astonishing discovery.  My clients who were very religious, were afraid of death.  I don't want to say that my secular patients wanted to die.  They didn't.  But they were able to come to terms with their mortality.  It was the religious clients who were afraid to die.

 

It's counter intuitive.  It goes against the religious narrative.  But there we are.

 

 

 

How very recognizable. It reminds me of something I read the other day: 

 

Quote

The amount of anger and insults is directly proportional to fear. That has nothing to do with a lack of compassion and caring. It's usually stronger with that. We just don't realise that our fears lead us to the animosity which usually takes over, instead of trying to dig deep and understand others and ourselves better.

 

Sounds like someone we might know...?

 

 

[damnthing]

Should we write it off to anger and resentment over the loss of his commander-in-chief

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

6 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:

 

 

How very recognizable. It reminds me of something I read the other day: 

 

 

Sounds like someone we might know...?

 

 

 

 

Again, this goes to the nature of the fear based content, which is the Evangelical world.  The whole thing about being helpless before the righteous angry God.  They are afraid and they strive to make the rest of us fearful.  Misery really does love company.

 

Here comes the sad part.  Dan thinks that we don't understand him -- or his God.  No.  We do understand Dan.  As for his God.....

 

If there is one thing sadder than an adult man with an invisible friend -- It's an adult man who is afraid of that invisible friend.  Sadder still, is when he expects me to be afraid of his invisible friend.

 

Am I really expected to do the Atheist thing, and argue about whether or not that friend exists?  I think in his many movies, the great W. C. Fields said it best.  "Go away boy.  Ya bother me."

 

Enough is enough.  It's time to put away childish things, and be a man. An adult man.   I am an Apatheist.  It's good to be free of all that silly baggage.  We have to grow up sometime. 

 

Well, we can be religious.  It's an other way to go.  Dan's way.  All that faith.  All that belief.          

 

  

[Pete]

Death is just the circle of life. We do not live forever. I just hope it won't be painful and those I leave behind are okay. The rest I just feel "whatever". 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

33 minutes ago, damnthing said:

Should we write it off to anger and resentment over the loss of his commander-in-chief

 

 

The Trump Dump?  The enflamed sore on the Seat of Government?     

 

No.  It hasn't changed Dan at all.     

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Death is just the circle of life. We do not live forever. I just hope it won't be painful and those I leave behind are okay. The rest I just feel "whatever". 

 

 

Just so.  In time, even the stars grow cold.  Life is short.  Too short to waste it, arguing with the pious.