The Methodist Denomination -- torn apart by Homophobia

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

 

 

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/mercynotsacrifice/2019/01/31/the-evangelism-of-a-thousand-clergy-trials/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Progressive+Christian&utm_content=43

[mark 45]

i'd like to see rev cali's take on this.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

30 minutes ago, mark 45 said:

i'd like to see rev cali's take on this.

 

 

Yes.  The voice of reason.  No doubt, you remember the large rainbow flag on his church.  I was thinking of him myself.  

 

My expectation is that he and his associates, will come down firmly on the side of Humanity, in defiance of the homophobic forces.  After all.  He has but one face and he has shown it clearly, with that flag.

 

I fear what his courage may cost him.

 

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

Less than his lack of course would have I think.

 

[Key]

A thought provoking read. Not surprising at all about many of the old Christian church denominations that are anti-gay. Equally unsurprising is their stubbornness not to follow the example of Christ's inclusiveness in His messages. At least from my perspective.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Less than his lack of course would have I think.

 

 

 

It takes courage to endanger a pension.  American society will forgive almost anything but being poor.  

 

Life without principles is an awful thing.  My only point is that living by those principles, can have an awful cost.  There are reasons, why lesser men sell out.  Understandable reasons.

 

There is another set of costs.  It's a tough thing to become a Methodist Minister.  The preparation is severe.  It requires a profound commitment.  Years of study and internship.  To go through all that, in order to become a Methodist Minister -- and then lose all that -- to see the denomination split ----

 

I won't even pretend that I understand such a loss.  It is not a small thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

20 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

It takes courage to endanger a pension.  American society will forgive almost anything but being poor.  

 

Life without principles is an awful thing.  My only point is that living by those principles, can have an awful cost.  There are reasons, why lesser men sell out.  Understandable reasons.

 

There is another set of costs.  It's a tough thing to become a Methodist Minister.  The preparation is severe.  It requires a profound commitment.  Years of study and internship.  To go through all that, in order to become a Methodist Minister -- and then lose all that -- to see the denomination split ----

 

I won't even pretend that I understand such a loss.  It is not a small thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a small thing, by stoic philosophy.  The rock is thrown into the air. It gains nothing from rising and loses nothing in its fall, because its still a rock no matter where its at in the arc.  I fully concede mine as the odd perspective.  And fully concede it is a courageous and noble thing to stand on principles in the face of adversity.  Most admirable, as well as regretted that there be negative consequences to the right thing.

Edited February 2, 2019 by cuchulain

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

It is a small thing, by stoic philosophy.  The rock is thrown into the air. It gains nothing from rising and loses nothing in its fall, because its still a rock no matter where its at in the arc.  I fully concede mine as the odd perspective.  And fully concede it is a courageous and noble thing to stand on principles in the face of adversity.  Most admirable, as well as regretted that there be negative consequences to the right thing.

 

 

If we are going to cite philosophy in the abstract; we can also consider the Buddhist teachings on loss.  All things are transitory.  All things pass.  When we cling to the transitory, we suffer.  In the abstract, it all makes great sense.  But I am neither a rock nor a Buddha.  Most of us are not.  We are weak and we have needs.  Human needs.  If it were easy to live up to our highest principles, everybody would.

 

We can also cite the wisdom of Jesus.  "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, if he lose his soul?"

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

30 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

If we are going to cite philosophy in the abstract; we can also consider the Buddhist teachings on loss:  All things are transitory.  All things pass.  When we cling to the transitory, we suffer.  In the abstract, it all makes great sense.  But I am neither a rock nor a Buddha.  Most of us are not.  We are weak and we have needs.  Human needs.  If it were easy to live up to our highest principles, everybody would.

 

We can also cite the wisdom of Jesus.  "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, if he lose his soul?"

 

 

 

[cuchulain]

As i said, mine is the oddity.  It doesnt bother me in the least to lose or gain position, prestige or title.  They arent me.  If i were proclaimed the preeminent philosopher in the world or the joke of the forum, still i would be the same person.  But i am certainly no saint, buddha or anything like that.  Far too many flaws.  This is just the rare area i've had some tranquility with. . 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

As i said, mine is the oddity.  It doesnt bother me in the least to lose or gain position, prestige or title.  They arent me.  If i were proclaimed the preeminent philosopher in the world or the joke of the forum, still i would be the same person.  But i am certainly no saint, buddha or anything like that.  Far too many flaws.  This is just the rare area i've had some tranquility with. . 

 

My concern is not for name and fame.  It's pension.  It's nice to have the food I want, instead of the food in my budget.  It's nice to have the more comfortable shoes.  In lots of little things, money does make a difference.  Losing a pension is not the same as death.  It is so many loses.  Like being drained by countless mosquitoes.  It is the little things that make life endurable.  

 

Young people like to have fantasies, about giving their all for a noble cause.  Some of us are old enough to think -- Now what? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

5 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

My concern is not for name and fame.  It's pension.  It's nice to have the food I want, instead of the food in my budget.  It's nice to have the more comfortable shoes.  In lots of little things, money does make a difference.  Losing a pension is not the same as death.  It is so many loses.  Like being drained by countless mosquitoes.  It is the little things that make life endurable.  

 

 

 

That's true.  I've had lots of money...then none.  And now am in the middle path...of a budget.  Never bothered me either way.  I do enjoy the niceties, but i guess having lost nearly everything puts a different perspective in mind.  Or as john sang, 'i'm just sittin here watching the wheels go round'.  Or is it shadows on the wall?  Or no longer riding on the merry go round?  Ah, all the same.  We're just doing time.

Edited February 3, 2019 by cuchulain

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

That's true.  I've had lots of money...then none.  And now am in the middle path...of a budget.  Never bothered me either way.  I do enjoy the niceties, but i guess having lost nearly everything puts a different perspective in mind.  Or as john sang, 'i'm just sittin here watching the wheels go round'.

 

 

People with an income get to sit and watch the wheels.  Others get to get a job and work when they don't want to.

 

 

[cuchulain]

They could want to.  I always do.  But that's me, the odd duck.  I've been a happy business owner and a happy gas station clerk and a happy phone operator for GTE, for those who remember GTE.  Even happy homeless for a while.  Part of the natural stoic in me is my circumstances don't affect my persona much.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

3 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

They could want to.  I always do.  But that's me, the odd duck.  I've been a happy business owner and a happy gas station clerk and a happy phone operator for GTE, for those who remember GTE.  Even happy homeless for a while.  Part of the natural stoic in me is my circumstances don't affect my persona much.

 

 

It's nice to enjoy working.  Some people would rather watch the tide.