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DoctorIssachar

Lessons In Apologetics, Part 1: Introduction & Agnosticism

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On 11/16/2018 at 9:43 PM, Dan56 said:

 

 

There's no explanation possible to establish or convince a person of the plausibility of God.. Consider that God is Spirit and exist in a dimension that is unseen and unknown by us.. In which case, what possible evidence or explanation would be plausible? There's no plausible explanation to define that which we can't conceive. I doubt anyone is convinced of God because they have intellectually understood His existence. Its just not something we can grasp, which is why God must be accepted by faith. If you saw the burning bush yourselves, and heard the voice of God, I doubt you would accept it because you couldn't explain it.

Yes, there is.  He could, being all powerful and all knowing, easily convince us...unless you're saying atheism is more powerful than god, or god doesn't care enough to do so.  

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4 hours ago, cuchulain said:

Yes, there is.  He could, being all powerful and all knowing, easily convince us...unless you're saying atheism is more powerful than god, or god doesn't care enough to do so.  

 

 

Yes.  Just so.          :thumbu:

 

 

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12 hours ago, Songster said:

Perhaps God has decided that some are simply not worth His time.

 

 

You mean the all powerful God?  The one without limits of time and space?  That God?  The all good God?  Not worth his time?

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

:whist:

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23 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

You mean the all powerful God?  The one without limits of time and space?  That God?  The all good God?  Not worth his time?

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

:whist:

His infinite time, nor his all goodness.  Or in other words the contradiction disproves his existence as explained by those who insist he is all three.

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On 11/19/2018 at 2:21 PM, cuchulain said:

Yes, there is.  He could, being all powerful and all knowing, easily convince us...unless you're saying atheism is more powerful than god, or god doesn't care enough to do so.  

 

God could convince us? You mean like if He actually appeared here as a man, performed miracles and rose from the dead.. If that didn't persuade people, what would? God doesn't care? Consider that He was beaten and hung on a cross for our sake's (remission of our sins). What more could demonstrate that God cares?

 

Perhaps its not so much about convincing, as it is about recognizing the truth... The truth is in the message.

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:04 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

You mean the all powerful God?  The one without limits of time and space?  That God?  The all good God?  Not worth his time?

EXACTLY!!!

Words of wisdom shouted in a deaf man’s ears are wasted breath, and a blind man that refuses to accept that something he can't see exists, deserves to dwell in darkness.

 

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6 hours ago, Songster said:

EXACTLY!!!

Words of wisdom shouted in a deaf man’s ears are wasted breath, and a blind man that refuses to accept that something he can't see exists, deserves to dwell in darkness.

 

 

An interesting response.  How very Christian of you.  

 

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On 11/16/2018 at 9:43 PM, Dan56 said:

 

 

There's no explanation possible to establish or convince a person of the plausibility of God.. Consider that God is Spirit and exist in a dimension that is unseen and unknown by us.. In which case, what possible evidence or explanation would be plausible? There's no plausible explanation to define that which we can't conceive. I doubt anyone is convinced of God because they have intellectually understood His existence. Its just not something we can grasp, which is why God must be accepted by faith. If you saw the burning bush yourselves, and heard the voice of God, I doubt you would accept it because you couldn't explain it.

 

 

For these stories to be meaningful, they must be plausible.  So, the Crucifixion takes place, the tombs open and the zombies start walking about among the living.  Just a normal day in Jerusalem.  No source outside of Scripture thought it was worth mentioning.  Nobody noticed the zombies?  There was no investigation?  Nobody wrote about it?  Nobody thought to bring in the military to restore order?  No panic?  

 

:rolleyes:

 

:whist:

 

 

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8 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

God could convince us? You mean like if He actually appeared here as a man, performed miracles and rose from the dead.. If that didn't persuade people, what would? God doesn't care? Consider that He was beaten and hung on a cross for our sake's (remission of our sins). What more could demonstrate that God cares?

 

Perhaps its not so much about convincing, as it is about recognizing the truth... The truth is in the message.

 

 

I never saw any of that, and your lying if you say you did.

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I think apologetics is aptly named.  They should be sorry for trying to get us to swallow that load of bs without evidence and then making out like its our flaw for asking for some proof of blatantly absurd claims.

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5 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I think apologetics is aptly named.  They should be sorry for trying to get us to swallow that load of bs without evidence and then making out like its our flaw for asking for some proof of blatantly absurd claims.

 

Breath deeply and relax.  I know.  You are trying to argue reason and evidence with people who care only about faith.  There is nothing to be gained by letting it get to you.

 

:thumbu:

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Breath deeply and relax.  I know.  You are trying to argue reason and evidence with people who care only about faith.  There is nothing to be gained by letting it get to you.

 

:thumbu:

I appreciate the sentiment and you are right, but i'm more at the giving as good as i get phase. Not a bad place right now 😁

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10 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

An interesting response.  How very Christian of you.  

 

KARMIC CREATIONIST best describes my beliefs.

I have never claimed to be a candidate for sainthood. I lack the patience, and have neither the time nor inclination to accommodate the arrogant ignorance of the Godless (especially when they display their disdain for those possessing a KNOWLEDGE that is evidently beyond their comprehension.)

Jesus may forgive them.... 

I say, "To Hell with 'em. They deserve what they get."

Edited by Songster

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26 minutes ago, Songster said:

KARMIC CREATIONIST best describes my beliefs.

I have never claimed to be a candidate for sainthood. I lack the patience, and have neither the time nor inclination to accommodate the arrogant ignorance of the Godless (especially when they display their disdain for those possessing a KNOWLEDGE that is evidently beyond their comprehension.)

Jesus may forgive them.... 

I say, "To Hell with 'em. They deserve what they get."

 

 

Such wonderful consistency.  The very flower of Christianity.  Keep up the good work.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

I appreciate the sentiment and you are right, but i'm more at the giving as good as i get phase. Not a bad place right now 😁

 

So long as you're having fun.  It seems to me that Songster is doing more to destroy Christian faith than you are.

 

 

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I have songster on ignore, so anything he replies to is his own paranoia as nothing is aimed at him specifically.  I doubt he looks reasonable, as that is the reason i ignore him.

 

It strikes me that i have been and have observed many insults from the supposed righteous with little or no consequences from mods, and i wondered at the slant...until i realised the nonbelievers dont insult the person but the point of view(as the guidelines say we should).  It does little for the faithful to demonstrate they cant stay in those guidelines, except if they ever DO get in trouble they can play victim i suppose.  They certainly fail every other way.

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10 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I never saw any of that, and your lying if you say you did.

 

I never said I saw it, my point was simply that the story was preserved and relayed to us. Some accept and believe it, while other ignore and reject it.. As I mentioned, for me  the Truth is in the message. One thing that also establishes a truth is the testimony of those who witnessed it, but of course, if you choose to disregard all of that, it would be meaningless. As Jonathan stated; Its not about arguing over evidence, but rather recognizing a truth and accepting it by faith.. If something makes sense and answers my questions satisfactorily, I have no trouble accepting it as factual.

 

Imo, "Apologetics" would be a more applicable term for those trying to disprove God, because they have no evidence, just theory.

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You cannot prove that the story was preserved in tact, that is...not changed.  In fact, in previous posts, you have admitted to scribal error.  Have you ever investigated the differences in the KJV vs earlier works?  Or those earlier works vs even earlier ones?  

 

As for your statement, "if something makes sense and answers my questions..."...you really think bible stories make sense?  I don't see it.

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2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

I never said I saw it, my point was simply that the story was preserved and relayed to us. Some accept and believe it, while other ignore and reject it.. As I mentioned, for me  the Truth is in the message. One thing that also establishes a truth is the testimony of those who witnessed it, but of course, if you choose to disregard all of that, it would be meaningless. As Jonathan stated; Its not about arguing over evidence, but rather recognizing a truth and accepting it by faith.. If something makes sense and answers my questions satisfactorily, I have no trouble accepting it as factual.

 

Imo, "Apologetics" would be a more applicable term for those trying to disprove God, because they have no evidence, just theory.

 

 

You continue to misrepresent Atheism.  Nobody has to disprove the existence of God -- or Spiderman -- or Thor -- or Little Red Riding Hood -- or Dracula -- or Peter Pan -- or the Tooth Fairy.

 

By all means.  Embrace your personal truth --  by Faith.  Nobody is stopping you.  

 

Maybe you noticed.  I stopped asking for evidence.

 

:whist:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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