Sabbath: What is it, when is it, and how to honor it.

[ReverendDaveULC]

February 13, 2018 Sermon # 2.
Sabbath Day: 
What is it, When is it, and Keeping it Holy

We as human beings alot of times think that we have much to do inside of our week. We juggle our work life and our home life together and sometimes we feel like we get overwelmed trying to find a happy balanced between the two. We get up, get ready for work, leave our families for sometimes 12 to 14 hours a day working to provide a home and put food on the table. We then come home and try to spend time with our loved ones while also trying to keep the home we work so hard for from falling into disrepair. We have to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, fix that broken board on the front stairs, paint the living room...the list goes on. So, you think you did alot this week? Let me tell you a story of a very, very busy week, one to put your most hectic, crazy week to shame.
    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2)And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3)And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4)And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5)And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Folks, that is just overwhelming to me. Can you picture that project in your mind. That's a huge undertaking in itself. Creating the heaven, earth, day and night, and the water. By the way, this was just the first day. So, in today's understanding God went to work Monday morning, "hypothetically speaking" and by the time he clocked out at 5:00 or so he had done all these things. That's alot of work in just one day.
    Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7)And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8)And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. So day two and we have a formed earth, water, and the firmament or as we know it, Heaven. I've done some creative work in my time. I've designed landscapes, done some home improvement projects. I lived in a mobile home park in a double wide trailer. I had a leak inside the wall of the shower that caused alot of water damage to the walls and floor. It took my father and I two days to gut that bathroom and rebuild it. New shower enclosure, new vanity, new sheetrock, new floor tiles. Two men, two full days; and we still didn't get the door put back up. God created Heaven, earth, day, night and water by himself in the same amount of time. I need to step up my game.
    Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10)And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11)And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12)And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13And the evening and the morning were the third day. So here we are now, just finished "hump day" and God has  created heaven and a formed earth with water and land and grass and trees. When I was a young boy, maybe 7 or 8 I can remember helping to plant these little baby pine trees with my father. He believed in replacing and replanting; meaning for every tree he cut down on our property he would plant 2 to replace it. We spent a whole day digging holes, putting these little trees in the ground, watering them, adding a little plant food. We spread them out all over our acre and a half piece of property. That was 35 years ago round abouts. Most of those trees have grown up and are still there and over the years I got to watch them grow; they're now as tall as the house. Heard what I said? Over the years. And God made all the dry land appear and placed all the trees and grass over all the dry land in one day. By now, I would have needed a vacation, like a month off or more. Can you imagine being one of the angels hanging out with God and just watching this all happening, creation being created. It must have been so beautiful and wonderful to see, but wait. God's not done. He's got a few more days worth of work on his ToDo list.
    Genesis 1:14And God said let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years. We're talking about the constellations now like the Big and Little Dipper, Orion and the rest as you can see them move about the night sky as the seasons change. 15)And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16)And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: What are these two great lights Moses is talking about here? The sun and the moon. 16 cont)he made the stars also. 17)And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. 18)And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19)And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Whoooowh!! What an intense week this has been so far. 
    Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundently, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22) And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas,and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23) And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. So at this point God has worked five days on creation. Most of us put in a five day work week, and after those five days they are exhausted. Well, as we all know; God's still not done. If He was then Charles Darwin might have had a leg to stand on with his Theory of Evolution because we still don't have man or land beasts but folks Darwin doesn't because the bible goes on to tell us that God put in "overtime". He worked a sixth day on creation.
    Genesis 1:24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25)And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And here it comes folks; 26)And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness bye bye theory of evolution saying that we came from a puddle of ooze) and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27)So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. So God made mankind, and thought so highly of us that he gave dominion, or control over all the earth; plants, animals, birds, fish. I don't even trust my dog to stay home alone out of his cage because he destroys the house and I've had him for six years. Ok, so lets jump to vers 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 
    Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2)And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3)And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. All I can say is WOW!! What a week. We could never, even if everybody in this church, everyone in this city, every person in this state , or every single living person in this country all combined our efforts, could ever...never never ever come close to accomplishing the amount of work God did in a single day, let alone what he accomplished in an entire week. So now God rested on the seventh day; he also blessed and sanctified it (or set it apart and made it Holy). He did that for a reason and we should honor that reason. 
    So how do we honor it if we don't know why or even when it is. Well, let's find out. First the reason why is simple. God commanded us to, he even wrote it on a stone tablet with his own hand along with nine other commandments. In Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9)Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10)But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11)For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefor the LORD blessed the sabbath and hallowed it. God needed only four words to tell us not to kill. He used ninety-four to tell us the importance of remembering the sabbath, and why. Why is right there too, because the LORD blessed and hallowed(or honored as holy) the sabbath.
    Some will say that with the arrival, death, and resurrection of the messiah (Christ) that we no longer have to observe the sabbath; much like circumcision and sacrificial animals. They argue this with the letter the apostle Paul wrote  to the Colossian Christians, a gentile congregation of this in Colossians 2:14, 16-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. 16)Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17)which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. This passage is interpreted by those who reject God’s festivals as confirmation that the biblical feast days are unnecessary observances. This reasoning is based on poor scholarship and inacurate translations from the original wording of Paul’s instructions. In this passage, we can by it's context, see that Paul is countering a local heresy. False teachers had infiltrated and influenced the Colossian Christians by introducing their own religious philosophy.  So by Paul countering these false teachers he actually confirms and explains the value of God’s days to Christians. They foreshadow “things to come” not things that have already come. So what Paul is saying here is the focus of God’s festivals is on the future, relating God’s plan directly to the commission Christ gave His church. Unlike circumcision and animal sacrifices and many other Old Testament rituals and traditions that were nailed to the cross with Christ, remembering the sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments. It wasn't up for debate. Thou shalt not kill. Was that rendered obsolete with the arrival and resurrection of Christ? How about thou shalt not commit adultry, thou shalt not steal? So Jesus came and died for our sins so now we can go steal from our neighbor's house, while sleeping with his wife and then kill him on the way out the door? No, absolutlety not. Those commandments are still 100% in effect after the coming of and resurrection of the messiah. Remembering the sabbath is no different folks. God made it very clear when he used ninety-four words to explain how important it was from Exodus 20:8-11. 
     So now let's discuss when should the sabbath be observed. Many churches today will tell you the sabbath is of course Sunday, the Lord's Day. Anyone know why? Around 314 A.D. Pope Sylvester 1 orders the days of the week to be renamed, which at the time were named after different Roman gods but decrees the transfer of sabbath rest to Sunday (the Lord's Day) because on it the Lord rose from the dead, and on that order that on that day we should rest from all worldly works for the praise of God. Around this same time Constantine was emperor of Rome. He was also the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. In 321 A.D. Constantine proclaimed Sunday to be the legal day of rest and ordered all judges, city-people and craftsman to cease work and rest. Now, for most Christians the normative has become worshipping on the Lord's Day (Sunday). So we have two men here around 300 A.D. that decided to make Sunday the sabbath. The first day of the calender week. Folks, lets go back for a second to Exodus and the Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefor the LORD blessed the sabbath and hallowed it. He didn't rest on the first day of the week. He rested on the seventh. That's the day he commands us to keep holy and to do no work. The sabbath runs from Friday evening at sunset to Saturday evening at sunset, period. Nowhere in the bible does God ever change that. Two men changed it. God created the earth with glory and power. Men destroyed the earth with sin and wickedness. Who do you want to believe? 
    May God Bless all who hear and read this with understanding of his word.                              

                                                   Your brother in faith;

                                                          ReverendDaveULC 
                                    

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

If I may -- a side issue.

 

 

Genesis 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

^{16 "}And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

 

 

"He made the stars also."

 

The stars were an afterthought?  Billions and billions of stars -- countless light years away.

 

"He made the stars also."

 

That is one big time after-thought.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[ReverendDaveULC]

It is not an after-thought. The emphasis was on the separation of day and night and the two great lights put in placed to govern the day and night. Its as if i was telling you about this terrific house and it has a brand new roof put on it with these great tiles and was recently sided with ancient Redwood from the California forest. And it had interior walls also. Not that the walls were an after thought but the emphesis was on the new roof and siding. Same idea.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

5 minutes ago, ReverendDaveULC said:

It is not an after-thought. The emphasis was on the separation of day and night and the two great lights put in placed to govern the day and night. Its as if i was telling you about this terrific house and it has a brand new roof put on it with these great tiles and was recently sided with ancient Redwood from the California forest. And it had interior walls also. Not that the walls were an after thought but the emphesis was on the new roof and siding. Same idea.

 

 

Alright.

 

 

[VonNoble]

ReverendDaveULC,

With complete respect offered to your beliefs.... the only question I noted in your posting was :who do you want to believe.

 

It seems you have found both comfort and inspiration in the Bible.     I am happy that is so.   

 

I have not only only read the book (all the way thru) (more than once)...but also studied it.   I can see many valuable and in some cases beautifully written ideas.   

 

I agree with the notion of pausing in our busy lives for spiritual refreshment.....

 

Again with respect offered to you....so far I have not been given the gift of faith.   So my point of view is naturally different.

 

So to answer your question.... I believe that which.... like you.....allows comfort and inspiration.    That is not, for me, The Bible as guidebook for living my life.    

 

Keeping ALL days holy is an approach that works more easily for me....and for me...it does not include visiting a church almost ever....(although I have in the past  ....still do on now rare occasion).... it does include quiet reflection several times each day.....with an incredibly grateful heart that I have so much.    And frequent daily pause (at least a half dozen times a day) as a reminder to give back.... as I have far more than any human needs.   I am reminded I have be generously treated with kindness by others when I did not deserve it...and often did not know I was in need of it..... and I realize several times a day...I ought to pay it forward because the world is nicer when we choose to act that way.... and I am fortunate I am still able to be of use....some of the time.

 

Again thanks  for sharing your insights

von

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

ReverendDaveULC,

With complete respect offered to your beliefs.... the only question I noted in your posting was :who do you want to believe.

 

It seems you have found both comfort and inspiration in the Bible.     I am happy that is so.   

 

I have not only only read the book (all the way thru) (more than once)...but also studied it.   I can see many valuable and in some cases beautifully written ideas.   

 

I agree with the notion of pausing in our busy lives for spiritual refreshment.....

 

Again with respect offered to you....so far I have not been given the gift of faith.   So my point of view is naturally different.

 

So to answer your question.... I believe that which.... like you.....allows comfort and inspiration.    That is not, for me, The Bible as guidebook for living my life.    

 

Keeping ALL days holy is an approach that works more easily for me....and for me...it does not include visiting a church almost ever....(although I have in the past  ....still do on now rare occasion).... it does include quiet reflection several times each day.....with an incredibly grateful heart that I have so much.    And frequent daily pause (at least a half dozen times a day) as a reminder to give back.... as I have far more than any human needs.   I am reminded I have be generously treated with kindness by others when I did not deserve it...and often did not know I was in need of it..... and I realize several times a day...I ought to pay it forward because the world is nicer when we choose to act that way.... and I am fortunate I am still able to be of use....some of the time.

 

Again thanks  for sharing your insights

von

 

 

That's an interesting turn of phrase.  Is faith a gift?  Is it given?  Do you really want it?

 

I'm not challenging.  I'm asking.  There seems to be a few invisible assumptions here.  

 

[ReverendDaveULC]

Basic

Instructions

Before

Leaving

Earth

 

            New parents will often say "I don't know what I'm doing. Babies don't come with an instruction manual". The fact of the matter is we all come with an instruction manual, of how we should live, how we should pray, how we should treat our fellow man. It is the inspired word of God, The Holy Bible. Just like anything else that comes with instructions; for example; how to assemble a barbeque grill or a chest of drawers; many people follow the instructions carefully and to the letter and the finished product looks and works the way it was intended. Others however choose to do things on their own. They either begin to read the instructions and stop, thinking they have it all figured out or they choose to ignore the fact that there is a manual at all and just "wing it." By doing it this way the finished product doesnt turn out the way it was suppose to. From simply having drawers that do not line up properly to actually blowing themselves up because they assembled the gas line incorrectly.

            You say I have found comfort and inspiration in the bible. Would it surprise you that comfort is not the only thing I feel. I feel fear as well. Most people when they preach or teach only speak of the comforts or the good things of God. Oh if you believe in God your life will change for the better and everything will be fine. God is a God of love; this is true but what many fail to speak of is God's wrath. By reading the bible in it's entirety more than once as you say you have I'm sure you came across many examples of his wrath being poured out on not just individuals but entire nations. Sodem and Gomorrah, the plagues of Eygpt, The Great Flood are just a few examples of his wrath on mankind for not following his commandments and instruction. So yes, I find comfort in the fact the God has granted my soul the gift of eternal life in paradise after this mortal flesh has passed not because I have been "a good boy" all my life; I'm a wretched sinner. Not because I preach His word, go to church twice a week, volunteer my time to help the church and others. None of this secured my place in heaven. The gift of salvation was given to me simple because I believe in His Son Jesus Christ, whom he sent to earth for one purpose, to be tortured and die on the cross so that in the spilling of his blood would wash away my sins. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The old testament demanded a sacrifice to God. We were to take our best animal; usually a lamb; one that was perfect, without blemishes and sacrifice it to God in order to have our sins forgiven. The new testament we no longer have to do that. God did it for us, by sending his Son; perfect, without blemish or sin; and sacrificed him for us. This is why Jesus is refered to as the Lamb of God. All God asked in return for faith and belief. That's not really much to ask for.

            You say keeping all days Holy works more easily for you. People have the tendency to always do what works more easily for them. The most basic meanining of the word "Holy" means to set apart. God simpley asks us to "set apart" 1 day out of 7 and dedicate it to him. Man seems to think they know better. More blood has been shed on this planet all because man thinks he knows better; wars The Spanish Inquisition 1478-1834, The Roman Catholic Inquisition which began in the late 12th century and lasted more than 6 centuries murdering more than 50 million people, the Jewish holocaust perpetraded by Nazi Germany between 1933-1945 killing around 6 million Jews and an overall death toll of 17 million.

              Anyway here is the simplicity of my thinking. We are all going to die someday. This body we have is nothing more than a vessel for our eternal soul to travel in while on this planet much like a car is a vessel to get you around. Much like a car as it gets older we start to rust, break down and eventually die. Many people believe when your body dies you just cease to exist. There is nothing after this. Others believe in reincarnation where you die today and are reborn and live a completly different life. Others believe in God and that the soul is eternal. Now, lets just say for a minute that what I believe is wrong and that when we die nothing happens, everything is fine. We are reborn or simple just cese to exist. Well, that's just great. Nothing wrong there. Now, on the other hand, on the slim fact that maybe I just might be right and when we die; the unbeliever who is not saved and did not accept Jesus Christ; his soul is thrown into Hell to be tormented and ripped apart over and over again for a minimum of 1,000 years, is then pulled out and brought before The Great White Thrown Of Judgment, found guilty and cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. OR simple believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and repent and get to live in paradise called heaven forever and ever. I don't know if you have ever been burned before but I can tell you from personal expierence that it's no picnic. I burned 9 precent of my body from a hot oil kitchen fire in 2010 and I can say I've never expierenced pain of that magnitude in my life. The initial burn lasted only mere seconds but the aftermath and pain lasted months. Now imagine your whole body on fire 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for all eternity, alone and never being able to die from your suffering because your soul is eternal. Too me, that would just totally suck. So, if there is just a small minute chance that I infact am right, then I would want to make totally sure I was never goingnto that place, how about you?

 

 

 

[ReverendDaveULC]

45 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

That's an interesting turn of phrase.  Is faith a gift?  Is it given?  Do you really want it?

 

I'm not challenging.  I'm asking.  There seems to be a few invisible assumptions here.  

 

No Jonathan, faith is not the gift. Faith is a choice that we make. The gift is eternal life in heaven Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved by faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

 To answer the second part of your question of do we really want it? That, my friend, is entirely up to you. I am simply a messenger. The ultimate choice lies with you. 

[VonNoble]

51 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

That's an interesting turn of phrase.  Is faith a gift?  Is it given?  Do you really want it?

 

I'm not challenging.  I'm asking.  There seems to be a few invisible assumptions here.  

 

Faith in God....is (to a believer in God) ...viewed as a gift.    At least that has always been my understanding of that process.

 

So my position is to accept that line of reasoning.   Therefore, if GOD CHOOSES to give me that gift....I will accept.

 

That way me and any earthly reps can both agree to trust God.   I accept God knows how and where to find me.   God knows I am open to a meet up.   

 

Until God makes a date to sign me up .... I am allowed to be a free agent..... doing what good I can ...where I can - to the best of my abilities.  So far God has not objected to that arrangement.

 

Von

 

[cuchulain]

I don't believe the bible is a good source for new parents on how to treat their children.  

And faith is certainly not a choice.  I don't choose to disbelieve Zeus, Taranus the Thunderer, or Marduk Kurios of the double bladed axe...I simply don't see enough supporting evidence.  It's much the same with Christianity.  I don't see enough supporting evidence.  Many have thought over the years that I specifically target Christians, that I pick on them, that I have some grudge against Christianity.  In reality, as I have explained before, I often test the waters so to speak with new Christian members in the hopes of hearing something original or new, some little tid bit of information that will make me reexamine things, something that will shed some light on why people actually believe in this stuff.  I read it, and I think it reads a lot like things in the National Inquirer, which also claims to be true.  Burning bushes that talk, talking animals, world wide floods where only one specific family was spared...and yet we reproduced SO MUCH FASTER THAN IS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE afterward.  I just don't grasp how anyone can claim they have a line on the truth and I am wrong, when it appears to me that they are chasing fairy tales. 

I still hope for some shred, some piece of information I don't currently have.  Yeah, people tell me I gotta have faith.  But I am not built that way, and if God made everything including me, he made me a doubter...which in turn of course means he made me specifically as an example for those with faith so they can watch me burn for all eternity...which doesn't seem all that loving to me.  Ah well...the quest goes on.

[VonNoble]

44 minutes ago, ReverendDaveULC said:

So, if there is just a small minute chance that I infact am right, then I would want to make totally sure I was never goingnto that place, how about you?

 

I have no fear of hell.  Not knowing thst God exists .....denies me dreaming about heaven’s rewards and eliminates hell’s damnation.  So pressure off there.

 

So being good to avoid burning is not necessary. I choose good because my life is easier that way.   

 

von

[ReverendDaveULC]

17 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

Faith in God....is (to a believer in God) ...viewed as a gift.    At least that has always been my understanding of that process.

 

So my position is to accept that line of reasoning.   Therefore, if GOD CHOOSES to give me that gift....I will accept.

 

That way me and any earthly reps can both agree to trust God.   I accept God knows how and where to find me.   God knows I am open to a meet up.   

 

Until God makes a date to sign me up .... I am allowed to be a free agent..... doing what good I can ...where I can - to the best of my abilities.  So far God has not objected to that arrangement.

 

Von

 

Von, That which you speak of is what is called free will. Your free will and he won't object to it because he gave you free will. You want God to make a date with you. Do you think he has not tried. Here is a parable for you. A strong believer in God is caught up in a flood of his town. He is sitting on the roof of his house waiting to be saved by God because he has faith. A little while goes by and a small row boat comes by and the ocupant says come on, I'll take you to safty. The man on the roof say no, I will be fine. God will save me. So the rower rows on. A little while later a mediem sized motor boat comes cruising by with some survivors. They call out to the man, come on, we will save you. The man waves them away saying "I'm ok, God will save me." The boat moves on. A little while later a rescue helicopter flys over and drops a rope ladder. The pilot yells down, Grab the ladder, I will save you. The man waves him away saying thanks but I'm good. Almighty God will save me. The helicopter flys away. The man eventually drowns on the roof of his house and goes to heaven to meet God. Astounded the man says to God I had faith in you. Why didn't you save me. God's response: I sent you two boats and a helicopter, why didnt you accept them. Everytime the word of God is presented to an individual it is presented by God. Whether it is a billboard you may drive by, a pamphlet handed out as you walk by, or a messege delivered by a humble messenger onto an online forum. These are your invitations sent by God to sign you up as you say. This is how God works. Again, as a believer in God, faith is NOT a gift, it is a choice. The grace and salvation, redemption of having faith in him IS the gift. Yes, you are allowed to be a free agent and the road to Hell is paved with good intentions and good works.

                                     May God bless you with these words.

     

[ReverendDaveULC]

22 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 

I have no fear of hell.  Not knowing thst God exists .....denies me dreaming about heaven’s rewards and eliminates hell’s damnation.  So pressure off there.

 

So being good to avoid burning is not necessary. I choose good because my life is easier that way.   

 

von

Again Von, this is your choice. Once you take your last breath, it's a done deal. There is no coming back from the wrong choice at that point. It's done.

[ReverendDaveULC]

28 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I don't believe the bible is a good source for new parents on how to treat their children.  

And faith is certainly not a choice.  I don't choose to disbelieve Zeus, Taranus the Thunderer, or Marduk Kurios of the double bladed axe...I simply don't see enough supporting evidence.  It's much the same with Christianity.  I don't see enough supporting evidence.  Many have thought over the years that I specifically target Christians, that I pick on them, that I have some grudge against Christianity.  In reality, as I have explained before, I often test the waters so to speak with new Christian members in the hopes of hearing something original or new, some little tid bit of information that will make me reexamine things, something that will shed some light on why people actually believe in this stuff.  I read it, and I think it reads a lot like things in the National Inquirer, which also claims to be true.  Burning bushes that talk, talking animals, world wide floods where only one specific family was spared...and yet we reproduced SO MUCH FASTER THAN IS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE afterward.  I just don't grasp how anyone can claim they have a line on the truth and I am wrong, when it appears to me that they are chasing fairy tales. 

I still hope for some shred, some piece of information I don't currently have.  Yeah, people tell me I gotta have faith.  But I am not built that way, and if God made everything including me, he made me a doubter...which in turn of course means he made me specifically as an example for those with faith so they can watch me burn for all eternity...which doesn't seem all that loving to me.  Ah well...the quest goes on.

Yes, the quest goes on

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

Faith in God....is (to a believer in God) ...viewed as a gift.    At least that has always been my understanding of that process.

 

So my position is to accept that line of reasoning.   Therefore, if GOD CHOOSES to give me that gift....I will accept.

 

That way me and any earthly reps can both agree to trust God.   I accept God knows how and where to find me.   God knows I am open to a meet up.   

 

Until God makes a date to sign me up .... I am allowed to be a free agent..... doing what good I can ...where I can - to the best of my abilities.  So far God has not objected to that arrangement.

 

Von

 

 

I understand.  You're a kind person.  You don't want to be mean or cruel or disagreeable or rude  or confrontational.  You don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.  What about your feelings?  What about your integrity?  There is no reason to accept the vocabulary off the pious.  There is no reason to be impolite, but neither is there a reason to cede the intellectual or moral high ground.  If the pious don't respect you, there is no point in engaging.  The ULC is for all of us.  Even me.  Even you.  There is no need for humble pie.

[VonNoble]

48 minutes ago, ReverendDaveULC said:

Again Von, this is your choice. Once you take your last breath, it's a done deal. There is no coming back from the wrong choice at that point. It's done.

 That is also true for your choices, no?

 

von

[VonNoble]

3 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

I understand.  You're a kind person.  You don't want to be mean or cruel or disagreeable or rude  or confrontational.  You don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.  What about your feelings?  What about your integrity?  There is no reason to accept the vocabulary off the pious.  There is no reason to be impolite, but neither is there a reason to cede the intellectual or moral high ground.  If the pious don't respect you, there is no point in engaging.  The ULC is for all of us.  Even me.  Even you.  There is no need for humble pie.

Thank you for understanding.

von

[ReverendDaveULC]

3 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

 That is also true for your choices, no?

 

von

Apparently there is nowhere in any of these forums where my message will be appreciated. So at this point, all I can do is to continue to put out messeges and just not answer the comments because nothing that I ever say will sway anyone here. Yes. My choice is my chpice, to answer the call of God and to do the work he asked of me or to ignore is call. I chose to accept it even though I knew I would be persecuted, hated and possibly killed for doing his work and believing in him. That is my choice and I made it, as you have all made your choices and that is your right. I won't stop bringing his message to the world just because noone here chooses to believe. If even one person on this forum reading these messages is brought to the LORD then it was worth it. Peace be to all of you for this is my last public comment. Anyone who wants to know more can send me a private message and I will be happy to teach you more. 

      ReverenDaveULC

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, ReverendDaveULC said:

Basic

Instructions

Before

Leaving

Earth

 

            New parents will often say "I don't know what I'm doing. Babies don't come with an instruction manual". The fact of the matter is we all come with an instruction manual, of how we should live, how we should pray, how we should treat our fellow man. It is the inspired word of God, The Holy Bible. Just like anything else that comes with instructions; for example; how to assemble a barbeque grill or a chest of drawers; many people follow the instructions carefully and to the letter and the finished product looks and works the way it was intended. Others however choose to do things on their own. They either begin to read the instructions and stop, thinking they have it all figured out or they choose to ignore the fact that there is a manual at all and just "wing it." By doing it this way the finished product doesnt turn out the way it was suppose to. From simply having drawers that do not line up properly to actually blowing themselves up because they assembled the gas line incorrectly.

            You say I have found comfort and inspiration in the bible. Would it surprise you that comfort is not the only thing I feel. I feel fear as well. Most people when they preach or teach only speak of the comforts or the good things of God. Oh if you believe in God your life will change for the better and everything will be fine. God is a God of love; this is true but what many fail to speak of is God's wrath. By reading the bible in it's entirety more than once as you say you have I'm sure you came across many examples of his wrath being poured out on not just individuals but entire nations. Sodem and Gomorrah, the plagues of Eygpt, The Great Flood are just a few examples of his wrath on mankind for not following his commandments and instruction. So yes, I find comfort in the fact the God has granted my soul the gift of eternal life in paradise after this mortal flesh has passed not because I have been "a good boy" all my life; I'm a wretched sinner. Not because I preach His word, go to church twice a week, volunteer my time to help the church and others. None of this secured my place in heaven. The gift of salvation was given to me simple because I believe in His Son Jesus Christ, whom he sent to earth for one purpose, to be tortured and die on the cross so that in the spilling of his blood would wash away my sins. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The old testament demanded a sacrifice to God. We were to take our best animal; usually a lamb; one that was perfect, without blemishes and sacrifice it to God in order to have our sins forgiven. The new testament we no longer have to do that. God did it for us, by sending his Son; perfect, without blemish or sin; and sacrificed him for us. This is why Jesus is refered to as the Lamb of God. All God asked in return for faith and belief. That's not really much to ask for.

            You say keeping all days Holy works more easily for you. People have the tendency to always do what works more easily for them. The most basic meanining of the word "Holy" means to set apart. God simpley asks us to "set apart" 1 day out of 7 and dedicate it to him. Man seems to think they know better. More blood has been shed on this planet all because man thinks he knows better; wars The Spanish Inquisition 1478-1834, The Roman Catholic Inquisition which began in the late 12th century and lasted more than 6 centuries murdering more than 50 million people, the Jewish holocaust perpetraded by Nazi Germany between 1933-1945 killing around 6 million Jews and an overall death toll of 17 million.

              Anyway here is the simplicity of my thinking. We are all going to die someday. This body we have is nothing more than a vessel for our eternal soul to travel in while on this planet much like a car is a vessel to get you around. Much like a car as it gets older we start to rust, break down and eventually die. Many people believe when your body dies you just cease to exist. There is nothing after this. Others believe in reincarnation where you die today and are reborn and live a completly different life. Others believe in God and that the soul is eternal. Now, lets just say for a minute that what I believe is wrong and that when we die nothing happens, everything is fine. We are reborn or simple just cese to exist. Well, that's just great. Nothing wrong there. Now, on the other hand, on the slim fact that maybe I just might be right and when we die; the unbeliever who is not saved and did not accept Jesus Christ; his soul is thrown into Hell to be tormented and ripped apart over and over again for a minimum of 1,000 years, is then pulled out and brought before The Great White Thrown Of Judgment, found guilty and cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. OR simple believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and repent and get to live in paradise called heaven forever and ever. I don't know if you have ever been burned before but I can tell you from personal expierence that it's no picnic. I burned 9 precent of my body from a hot oil kitchen fire in 2010 and I can say I've never expierenced pain of that magnitude in my life. The initial burn lasted only mere seconds but the aftermath and pain lasted months. Now imagine your whole body on fire 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for all eternity, alone and never being able to die from your suffering because your soul is eternal. Too me, that would just totally suck. So, if there is just a small minute chance that I infact am right, then I would want to make totally sure I was never goingnto that place, how about you?"

 

 

 

Obviously, I pressed the wrong button.  What follows is my response to Reverend Dave.

 

Jonathan

 

 

 

Quote

There are two different ways to respond.

 

1.  Did you ever want something with desperate urgency?  Did you sit down and write Santa a letter -- asking him to bring it to you?  You know -- just in case?

 

2.  Which Hell am I supposed to be afraid of?  Yours?  The Muslims also have a nasty Hell, for all non-Muslims.  Happy roasting in their Perdition for all eternity.

 

I choose neither, because I am not a miserable, craven coward -- to distort and waste the only life I can be sure of,  in fear and trembling.  Truly, I despise terrorists.  

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

25 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

Thank you for understanding.

von

 

Oh, I get it.  It is still in my nature to be nice -- and polite.  The trouble is, I'm getting grumpy in my old age.  I see no reason to put up with crap.  My ability to put up with smug, ignorant preaching is vanishing.  OOps.  Did I say that out loud?