speaking the truth

[ClericThomas]

I attack peoples belief ideas off site all the time, I'm happy calling out stupid ideas for what they are and no idea should be off limits from criticism but on here I abide by the site rules which is why I avoid faith debates and arguing religious texts here.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, ClericThomas said:

I attack peoples belief ideas off site all the time, I'm happy calling out stupid ideas for what they are and no idea should be off limits from criticism but on here I abide by the site rules which is why I avoid faith debates and arguing religious texts here.

 

It is people that need protection.  Not ideas.  The places -- like Saudi Arabia -- that protect belief, use blasphemy laws to punish non-belief.

In the market place of ideas; let the buyer beware.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[cuchulain]

It is the big flaw in the battle against bullying that we condemn the bully but do not follow through by teaching people how to cope with being the victim of bullying.  Some people cannot handle words against them, and it is a sad state of affairs when a person's life ends because they didn't know that words are just what they allow them to be.  I do not say that we should allow bullying, or the bashing of ideas if you will.  Only that people need to be supplemented in their education to cope with having their ideas, thoughts, religious tenets, or whatever else...questioned.  

I debated with a girl in high school about the existence of God, and was perfectly polite in my responses and answers.  The debate ended when she yelled out, "just shut up you stupid" and ran away.  She didn't run away because I was mean to her.  She ran away because she couldn't handle having her values questioned, and decided to pick an argument with me about her values.  If she had been exposed to having her ideas questioned before, she probably would have been better prepared.  As it is, she firmly believed I was bullying her, even though she instigated the debate and I never called her any name or attacked her in any way.  

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

36 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

It is the big flaw in the battle against bullying that we condemn the bully but do not follow through by teaching people how to cope with being the victim of bullying.  Some people cannot handle words against them, and it is a sad state of affairs when a person's life ends because they didn't know that words are just what they allow them to be.  I do not say that we should allow bullying, or the bashing of ideas if you will.  Only that people need to be supplemented in their education to cope with having their ideas, thoughts, religious tenets, or whatever else...questioned.  

I debated with a girl in high school about the existence of God, and was perfectly polite in my responses and answers.  The debate ended when she yelled out, "just shut up you stupid" and ran away.  She didn't run away because I was mean to her.  She ran away because she couldn't handle having her values questioned, and decided to pick an argument with me about her values.  If she had been exposed to having her ideas questioned before, she probably would have been better prepared.  As it is, she firmly believed I was bullying her, even though she instigated the debate and I never called her any name or attacked her in any way.  

I have experienced similar things, though never quite so extreme.  First there is amusement that I don't believe.  Then astonishment.  Then shock sets in.  Sometimes, panic.

It brings me small joy to be the source of a true believer's angst.  Sometimes, it is enough.

 

[Brother Kaman]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I have experienced similar things, though never quite so extreme.  First there is amusement that I don't believe.  Then astonishment.  Then shock sets in.  Sometimes, panic.

It brings me small joy to be the source of a true believer's angst.  Sometimes, it is enough.

 

Your A/atheism is such that you take glee in making others uncomfortable? Tsk, tsk, tsk...

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

Your A/atheism is such that you take glee in making others uncomfortable? Tsk, tsk, tsk...

I never said that I was a good Atheist.      

[Dan56]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:27 PM, cuchulain said:

I debated with a girl in high school about the existence of God, and was perfectly polite in my responses and answers.  The debate ended when she yelled out, "just shut up you stupid" and ran away.  She didn't run away because I was mean to her.  She ran away because she couldn't handle having her values questioned, and decided to pick an argument with me about her values.  If she had been exposed to having her ideas questioned before, she probably would have been better prepared.  As it is, she firmly believed I was bullying her, even though she instigated the debate and I never called her any name or attacked her in any way.  

That girl who ran away mad from your debate is reminiscent of the response we're seeing from those who can't accept the results of the recent election. Its not a matter of speaking any truth, its just an inability to accept reality. Remember when kids played soccer, football, softball, and we never kept score in those games? No sportsmanship was necessary because no disappointment was allowed, everyone got what they wanted, there were no losers, everyone was a winner. Those same kids, now adults, are protesting the results of an election they cannot accept.. The election result was not what they wanted, the result violated what they believed, so they reject the truth. Telling them that Trump is president only generates anger and resistance. Truth be damned when its an inconvenience to our preconceived notions, e.g; I don't think its right, therefore it can't can't be so.. 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 minutes ago, Dan56 said:

That girl who ran away mad from your debate is reminiscent of the response we're seeing from those who can't accept the results of the recent election. Its not a matter of speaking any truth, its just an inability to accept reality. Remember when kids played soccer, football, softball, and we never kept score in those games? No sportsmanship was necessary because no disappointment was allowed, everyone got what they wanted, there were no losers, everyone was a winner. Those same kids, now adults, are protesting the results of an election they cannot accept.. The election result was not what they wanted, the result violated what they believed, so they reject the truth. Telling them that Trump is president only generates anger and resistance. Truth be damned when its an inconvenience to our preconceived notions, e.g; I don't think its right, therefore it can't can't be so.. 

 

Who are you directing  this too?  I don't recall anybody on this board rejecting recent election history.

[Brother Kaman]

1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Who are you directing  this too?  I don't recall anybody on this board rejecting recent election history.

I think it is an analogy to not being able to accept truth. Apparently the Christian girl fled from the debate because she was fleeing the truth as it did not agree with her reality.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

16 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

I think it is an analogy to not being able to accept truth. Apparently the Christian girl fled from the debate because she was fleeing the truth as it did not agree with her reality.

I got that.  Who on this board can't handle political reality?  We have already seen who can't handle religious reality.

[cuchulain]

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

That girl who ran away mad from your debate is reminiscent of the response we're seeing from those who can't accept the results of the recent election. Its not a matter of speaking any truth, its just an inability to accept reality. Remember when kids played soccer, football, softball, and we never kept score in those games? No sportsmanship was necessary because no disappointment was allowed, everyone got what they wanted, there were no losers, everyone was a winner. Those same kids, now adults, are protesting the results of an election they cannot accept.. The election result was not what they wanted, the result violated what they believed, so they reject the truth. Telling them that Trump is president only generates anger and resistance. Truth be damned when its an inconvenience to our preconceived notions, e.g; I don't think its right, therefore it can't can't be so.. 

I think that sums it up.  Sore loser syndrome?  I don't like Trump, but I accept the results as they are.  That seems to me to be the best way to change future results, by accepting reality and working within its frame to attempt to see results I would prefer later.  The same thing biblically, of course.  I view the bible, I accept it the way it is, as a flawed work that seems to diminish with scientific discovery rather than expand.  

As an aside, I watched an interesting video of Bill Nye touring the Ken Ham ark exhibit thing.  It's interesting to watch the futility, and disappointing that anyone would rather believe Ken Ham about science than Bill Nye.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

8 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I think that sums it up.  Sore loser syndrome?  I don't like Trump, but I accept the results as they are.  That seems to me to be the best way to change future results, by accepting reality and working within its frame to attempt to see results I would prefer later.  The same thing biblically, of course.  I view the bible, I accept it the way it is, as a flawed work that seems to diminish with scientific discovery rather than expand.  

As an aside, I watched an interesting video of Bill Nye touring the Ken Ham ark exhibit thing.  It's interesting to watch the futility, and disappointing that anyone would rather believe Ken Ham about science than Bill Nye.

We all saw Fred Flintstone with his pet dinosaur.  It has the same proof value as the Bible.

Or to quote Penn of Penn and Teller -- "The Bible is equal parts history, science and pizza."

[Dan56]

On 2/12/2017 at 1:15 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Who are you directing  this too?  I don't recall anybody on this board rejecting recent election history.

There have been ongoing protest in the streets ever since Trump got elected.. My point was simply that some people can't accept anything that violates their own ideology, be it political or religious. Some of them refuse to adapt to reality because it doesn't match their own preconceived notion of how things should be, like the girl who debated cuchulain, when she threw a tissy fit and walked away.

 

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Dan56 said:

There have been ongoing protest in the streets ever since Trump got elected.. My point was simply that some people can't accept anything that violates their own ideology, be it political or religious. Some of them refuse to adapt to reality because it doesn't match their own preconceived notion of how things should be, like the girl who debated cuchulain, when she threw a tissy fit and walked away.

 

Oh.  Them.  I see your point.  

The die is cast and the election is over.  Nothing left but to brace for impact and see what happens.  I also don't like the results.  Such is life.  I'm going to live with it.  We will ALL live with the results.     

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:40 PM, cuchulain said:

sometimes I think this is the truth.  Then other times I think some people are victims of brainwashing.  When a person grows up in a culture so inundated with such beliefs that are immoral, they do not realize they are immoral.  A lot of people are sheep, and are unwilling to examine their beliefs, at least in any sort of meaningful manner.  Such is my personal opinion, of course.  I tend to view such victims with sympathy when I encounter them.  They are so full of hate towards something that they cannot stop to see their beliefs are encouraging hate. 

Indeed.

All we can do with such closed minds is to try to get them to do as scriptures urge them to do.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

When they do the above, they soon begin to know that they have been lied to by their religions and should not read myths literally.

Regards

DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎14‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 6:43 PM, mark 45 said:

i never said anything about them acting on said beliefs,and doing nothing.if i am or were in a position to stop it,i would do what i could.but i still feel no need to persecute them for their beliefs.

and by the way,clitoris removal is done usually by the girls mother and any help she can get(and most of the women who do it have had it done to them,and think they are doing right).i don't think they are.

Correcting poor thinking is not persecution.

It is us showing our love to others.

Imagine where we would be today if people did not correct each others poor thinking.

Pass the bananas and my wife club.

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 7:22 PM, Brother Kaman said:

Your A/atheism is such that you take glee in making others uncomfortable? Tsk, tsk, tsk...

??

You would not have the delusional corrected?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Should we allow the delusional to follow an immoral creed just because we make them uncomfortable?

Uncomfortable is the first step out of poor thinking.

Regards

DL

[Brother Kaman]

39 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

??

You would not have the delusional corrected?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Should we allow the delusional to follow an immoral creed just because we make them uncomfortable?

Uncomfortable is the first step out of poor thinking.

Regards

DL

See, that is the beauty of it all. We can all do as we please with our spiritual beliefs or lack of them. As long as we abide by the laws of our land with our actions, none of the rest of it is anyone's business. Quoting Bible to me is meaningless. You can spread your Bible blather to someone else.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Brother Kaman
Added Content

[Gnostic Bishop]

13 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

See, that is the beauty of it all. We can all do as we please with our spiritual beliefs or lack of them. As long as we abide by the laws of our land with our actions, none of the rest of it is anyone's business. Quoting Bible to me is meaningless. You can spread your Bible blather to someone else.

So it is none of our business if our neighbor beats his wife and sells his daughter for a few cows after her sexual pleasures are destroyed by FGM.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

You promote doing nothing and allowing evil to grow.

Regards

DL

[Brother Kaman]

3 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

So it is none of our business if our neighbor beats his wife and sells his daughter for a few cows after her sexual pleasures are destroyed by FGM.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

You promote doing nothing and allowing evil to grow.

Regards

DL

Of course it is my business. That is why I support strick criminal law. I don't need a "bible" to teach human dignity, human desire to survive as a specie teaches me that.