Wiccan No More ...

[Gwynn]

Greetings,

As I stated in my introduction, I started out over 25 years ago as a Wiccan Witch. Re-reading my introduction caused me to do some thinking, and I have realized that my beliefs have drifted away from Wicca towards a more Traditional form of Witchcraft. (I originally wrote my introduction over 2 years ago and probably should have given it more thought before reposting it recently.) I will discuss some of these differing beiliefs and welcome others' opinions, both Wiccans and non-Wiccans. For the record, I have no intention of leaving Witchcraft and Paganism, I just have been thinking I no longer fit the Wiccan paradigm and should identify as a Traditional Witch (or maybe even a Warlock ... mwah-ha-ha) from now on to avoid giving people the wrong idea.

The first difference between my beliefs and those of most Wiccans is I have become a hard polytheist instead of a duotheist, meaning I have come to the conclusion that the deities with whom I work are individual and specific, not just an aspect of The God and The Goddess. I no longer believe all gods are one God and all goddesses are one Goddess. (I do believe in a unifying, interconnecting creative principle or energy that may be identified as God by some, however for me this is an impersonal force not a Supreme being or God.)

Another difference is that over the years I have come to dismiss the "Rule of Three" or law of Karmic Return that Witches who do bad or good receive three times the bad or good for their actions. I had been told that the reason for this is Witches were supposed to be wiser than your average mortal, so Karma worked differently for them. I do not feel this is accurate.

I no longer believe the Wiccan Rede as an absolute. There are times when others will be harmed by your actions whether it is your intention or not. Sometimes we must make the conscious decision to choose the lesser of two evils. I also believe that there are those who would benefit from a good metaphysical spanking, and I must confess to casting a curse or two in my day. Don't get me wrong, I try to follow the ULC's motto, "do that which is right," but not everything is always black and white.

I no longer believe the "beautiful lies" that were taught when I first became a Wiccan:

I no longer believe that Wicca is an unbroken line passed down in secret from Neolithic times, through the Middle Ages, and down into modern times. I believe that Gardner did not discover a surviving Witch cult, but that he invented it himself (see the authors Aidan Kelly, Leo Ruickbie, and Ronald Hutton for specifics). I believe he bundled together different practices some of which may have indeed been ancient, but Wicca itself is only about 65 years old.

I also don't believe in the perfect and peaceful Goddess worshiping matriarchy that was later ruined by God worshipping plunderers.

I don't believe in the "Burning Times" as it was presented, meaning that I believe the estimates were grossly inflated in an attempt to create the myth of a Holocaust type of event for Wiccans. Certainly the Church executed people in the name of God, but most of the people executed were only unfortunate peasants or political targets, not practitioners of any form of Witchcraft or Paganism.

Over the years I have replaced much of the generic Wiccan and Gardnerian based material with which I began. I now try to incoporate as much genuine Welsh folklore and mythology as possible into my rites. I still utilize some elements from Ceremonial magic, but I know from whence they came and don't pretend they are the lost teachings of ancient Witch covens.

I prefer to use the triskele as a symbol of my faith instead of a pentagram. The triskele was historically used by the ancient Celts. The pentagram was adopted into Wicca from Ceremonial magic or Freemasonry.

Anyway, this post has been something of a cathartic excercise for myself. I do not mean to pick a fight with Wiccans who still choose to follow these precepts and believe these things. Feel free to comment.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Gwynn

[panpareil]

The "Everything you know is wrong" moment is a very nice one. But it is hard to hold on to. Good luck.

[emalpaiz]

Gwynn, walk your path as you understand that you should walk it. Personally I do not think that there is such a thing as the "true" or "pure" path. I do believe that everyone of us walks his/her path, and we do not have to give explanations of why we do it. But I always like to tell everyone to walk their path with Understanding, Love, and Compassion (U.L.C.). May you always find happiness!

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

You found your path. Congratulations and blessings.

[Gwynn]

Thank you all for your comments, and I truly appreciate your positive wishes . Sometimes the act of writing things helps me sort things out, and I find others' feedback helpful.

[Cornelius]

Preach it!

[Gwynn]

POST DELETED BY USER.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Gwynn

[Jared obere]

Greetings Gwen,

As a British Initiate, the whole neolithic thing we all know was/is false, for the rede and karma and such, the only part to that which is important is, do what thou will as long as harm none, then again it is also subjective and something ive never used i know of it but its not in my practice. as such i believe in morals and virtues that are ofcourse tangable and real, dealing with life in the here and now.

Yes Gardner did find a coven, as is proven, by philip heselton. like wise people within the witch cult knew of and had confirmed many things not put into published records via edith woodford grimes the maiden and eventual high priestess of the new forest coven,

While i am glad to hear that you have gone more to a roots sort of speak in working the cult, i would hope that you do not degruge the wica, as such were all still on a pathway working towards a similar goal, were going about in possible different ways but still in a same manner.

i do like what you said, about the Gods, i my self know my god's and they are seperate i cannot understand that fashion of thinking of them as constructs or what have you they have there own personalities and so much more.

i do hope you enjoy your practice and keep the faith,

may the olde Gods watch over and protect thee,

Merry meet,Merry Part,Merry Meet Again,

Flax,flagg,fodder,Frigg.

Rev,jared

High Priest/Magus/Magister

Madtown Cuveen

Cosmic Grove,

Madtown pagan way.

[Gwynn]

Greetings Gwen,

As a British Initiate, the whole neolithic thing we all know was/is false, for the rede and karma and such, the only part to that which is important is, do what thou will as long as harm none, then again it is also subjective and something ive never used i know of it but its not in my practice. as such i believe in morals and virtues that are ofcourse tangable and real, dealing with life in the here and now.

Yes Gardner did find a coven, as is proven, by philip heselton. like wise people within the witch cult knew of and had confirmed many things not put into published records via edith woodford grimes the maiden and eventual high priestess of the new forest coven,

While i am glad to hear that you have gone more to a roots sort of speak in working the cult, i would hope that you do not degruge the wica, as such were all still on a pathway working towards a similar goal, were going about in possible different ways but still in a same manner.

i do like what you said, about the Gods, i my self know my god's and they are seperate i cannot understand that fashion of thinking of them as constructs or what have you they have there own personalities and so much more.

i do hope you enjoy your practice and keep the faith,

may the olde Gods watch over and protect thee,

Merry meet,Merry Part,Merry Meet Again,

Flax,flagg,fodder,Frigg.

Rev,jared

High Priest/Magus/Magister

Madtown Cuveen

Cosmic Grove,

Madtown pagan way.

Blessings Jared,

It is not just Wicca of which I am skeptical. I have been a High Priest, a Druid, a and a Rosicrucian, and I am no neophyte concerning the occult. I also feel many of the groups calling themselves Traditional were created in reaction to Gardner and copied key concepts from him. Many Traditional groups follow Wiccan duotheism with a Horned God and a Queen of Elphame. Compare the "casting of the circle" with the "laying of the compass" in some forms of Traditional Witchcraft. And also consider the Wiccan,s Book of Shadows and the Traditional Witch's grimoire or "graymayre." Most of the current groups claiming to be Traditional are also Luciferian and obviously cannot predate the coming of Christianity to the British Isles. I personally feel the truest form of Traditional Witchcraft is solitary practice in the tradition of the village wise man or woman, such as the English cunning man, the Welsh dyn hysbys, and the Irish fairy doctor. My personal practice consists of Celtic (Welsh) polytheism and Welsh folklore combined with some ceremonial magic. But I don't pretend that ceremonial magic was the religious practice of my ancient Celtic ancestors or that the pentagram is a Celtic religious symbol. I do not mean to offend others who follow Wicca or other forms of Witchcraft, but I just wished to express my views and the reasons behind them .I have a good friend who is a Georgian High Priestess and another friend who is a Druid; we just agree to disagree about certain things. Thank you for the good wishes, and I extend the same to you ..

Edited January 11, 2015 by Gwynn

[cuchulain]

I have heard a little bit about wicca, through studying druidism. For instance, that Gardner and Nichols were friends, and often borrowed each others materials so to speak. I never believed that either wicca or druidism could offer ancient resources, though both have made such claims at some time or another. Then, it must also be presented that there are so many variations of each doctrine, much like denominations of Christianity, that it is hard if not impossible to make an umbrella claim about either druids or wiccans. The course I studied through with druidism never claimed ancient descent, or an unbroken line to ancient times when druids were "authentic". Rather, they styled their teachings with what is known of Celtic culture of the times, and gave it some modern flavoring. After all, if nature adapts to its surroundings, why shouldn't a nature based religion? Anyways, I can see that you have put a lot of time and research and feeling into the right path for yourself, and wish you the best of luck on that path.

[Gwynn]

I have heard a little bit about wicca, through studying druidism. For instance, that Gardner and Nichols were friends, and often borrowed each others materials so to speak. I never believed that either wicca or druidism could offer ancient resources, though both have made such claims at some time or another. Then, it must also be presented that there are so many variations of each doctrine, much like denominations of Christianity, that it is hard if not impossible to make an umbrella claim about either druids or wiccans. The course I studied through with druidism never claimed ancient descent, or an unbroken line to ancient times when druids were "authentic". Rather, they styled their teachings with what is known of Celtic culture of the times, and gave it some modern flavoring. After all, if nature adapts to its surroundings, why shouldn't a nature based religion? Anyways, I can see that you have put a lot of time and research and feeling into the right path for yourself, and wish you the best of luck on that path.

Hi Cuchulain,

I don't not believe there is anything wrong with attempting to recreate a religious path or that there is anything wrong in combining outside elements as long as people are honest about it with themselves and others. For example, when I was studying Druidry we were all aware of the forgeries of Iola Morganwc but we still incorporated his teachings because they were in the spirit of Druidry. We just didn't pretend they were ancient secrets. I also agree that religions evolve and adapt over time. In Christianity there woul be a great deal of variation between the practices of 1st century Christians, a medieval high mass, a Southern tent revival, and a modern worship service at a big city megachurch. Thank you for the good wishes, and I hope the best for you on your path .

Edited January 11, 2015 by Gwynn

[cuchulain]

the Barddas, what a shame lol. In spirit, I believe that he gathered much information on the subject, but ruined his credibility with the forgery. I do own a copy, however, and do reference it occasionally, like you said with the caveat that it was a forgery but still written in the proper spirit.

[Jared obere]

most initiates atleast in any british line of the wica, know that wicca does not have the origin in the mists of time. there are certain rites and rituals that were used as well charms and spells used and in our book of rituals that had been passed on by the new forest coven, that did not cross the pond.

like you said yes more authentic traditional witchcraft IE the cunning folk were solitary, as they were and are the traditional white witches.

What olde Gerald did was take this as well the Folklore and the hereditary practice of a few members of the New forest and blend together with the Ceremonial magic methodology that he knew and worked with into a workable system.

like wise i personally enjoy to blend the folkloric practice brought over by my forefathers from the blessed isles and as well blended with the natives here.

that i my self blended with the wica.

im glad what ever system works for you and any one else. as it really matters not what name we give it as in the end we all should atleast be praising the great one's above.

FFFF.

[Gwynn]

Hi Jared,

I am glad your system works for you as well. It is not my intention to argue that my particular practice of white witchcraft is the only valid form of witchcraft. By being critical of some specific aspects of Wicca or other forms of witchcraft I am just attempting to explain my thought process and how I ended up on my current path. When all is said and done, I have far more things in common with Wiccans, Traditional Witches, Druids, and Heathens than I do differences .

Edited February 2, 2015 by Gwynn

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

Hi Jared,

I am glad your system works for you as well. It is not my intention to argue that my particular practice of white witchcraft is the only valid form of witchcraft. By being critical of some specific aspects of Wicca or other forms of witchcraft I am just attempting to explain my thought process and how I ended up on my current path. When all is said and done, I have far more things in common with Wiccans, Traditional Witches, Druids, and Heathens than I do differences .

My only concern is that your path makes you happy. You found the path that's right for you. I'm pleased.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Gwynn]

On 11/27/2014 at 5:18 AM, Gwynn ap Gruffudd said:

I prefer to use the triskele as a symbol of my faith instead of a pentagram. The triskele was historically used by the ancient Celts. The pentagram was adopted into Wicca from Ceremonial magic or Freemasonry.

I still prefer the triskele as my primary symbol, and I do believe it was more likely that the pentagram was brought into Wicca from Ceremonial magic. But there is proof that the Celts did indeed use the pentagram in ancient / pre-Christian times.

Celtic coin, Cantii tribe, Dubnovellaunus, (c.25 BC-AD 5), gold Quarter Stater

I know that saying the pentagram is not Celtic has been a mantra used against Wiccans by other Pagan groups, but apparently ancient Celts did use it. Whether they spontaneously came up with the five pointed symbol, inherited it from their preceding Indo-European mother culture, adopted it from Pythagorean Greeks in Celtic areas, or appropriated it from Near Eastern peoples is a matter of discussion. But they definitely were aware of it and used it themselves

Now I can proudly wear a pentagram ring along with my triskele pendant Actually my path is eclectic because the authentic practices of actual cunning folk in premodern Wales were eclectic so I would wear a pentagram anyway

[Gnostic Bishop]

Religions should be judged by their morality, rules and laws.

Nice that you have found one that has equality as a requirement, if I read that religion right.

That automatically makes your better and more moral than Christianity and Islam.

If only you could cast a spell to help out those many oppressed women.

Regards

DL

[Gwynn]

7 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Religions should be judged by their morality, rules and laws.

Nice that you have found one that has equality as a requirement, if I read that religion right.

That automatically makes your better and more moral than Christianity and Islam.

If only you could cast a spell to help out those many oppressed women.

Regards

DL

I agree with you about the oppression of women. This low status of women was a result of Christianity taking over in Europe. In the ancient Celtic world women had equal status. They could rule over tribes or provinces, become warriors or priestesses, and own personal property. I feel this was a reflection of the Celtic religion which taught of Goddesses who were equal or sometimes superior to the male Gods.

Unfortunately spells are really only a type of prayer. Just as prayers are not always answered, spells are not always successful. There are other factors involved whether you call them Fate, Wyrd, Karma, Cosmic Order, or Natural Law. Free will is also a factor. For those who believe in a God or Gods, the psychic Sylvia Browne (who BTW started a religious group based on her concept of Gnostic Christianity) used to say, "God always answers your prayers. Sometimes he says no."

Bendithion (Blessings),

Gwynn

[Gnostic Bishop]

23 hours ago, Gwynn ap Gruffudd said:

I agree with you about the oppression of women. This low status of women was a result of Christianity taking over in Europe. In the ancient Celtic world women had equal status. They could rule over tribes or provinces, become warriors or priestesses, and own personal property. I feel this was a reflection of the Celtic religion which taught of Goddesses who were equal or sometimes superior to the male Gods.

Unfortunately spells are really only a type of prayer. Just as prayers are not always answered, spells are not always successful. There are other factors involved whether you call them Fate, Wyrd, Karma, Cosmic Order, or Natural Law. Free will is also a factor. For those who believe in a God or Gods, the psychic Sylvia Browne (who BTW started a religious group based on her concept of Gnostic Christianity) used to say, "God always answers your prayers. Sometimes he says no."

Bendithion (Blessings),

Gwynn

From the Gnostic POV, she should have said that sometimes she says no.

In Gnostic Christianity, we call God I am. And yes, we really mean us. Here is the logic trail Jesus set for that notion.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Jesus ascended to the judgement seat and takes mastery over God and a Gnostic Christian who reaches that level also does the same.

 

It basically means to reach our full human potential.

 

Regards

DL

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

16 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

From the Gnostic POV, she should have said that sometimes she says no.

In Gnostic Christianity, we call God I am. And yes, we really mean us. Here is the logic trail Jesus set for that notion.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Jesus ascended to the judgement seat and takes mastery over God and a Gnostic Christian who reaches that level also does the same.

 

It basically means to reach our full human potential.

 

Regards

DL

 

It does small good to reference the eye; unless you say that it is the Ajna chakra.