Man: Good, Evil, Or Undecided?

[Fawzo]

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8)

"For thou (Satan) hast said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven. ... I will be like the Most High'" (Isaiah 14:13-14)

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41)

Dan if I'm not mistaken when people in the past have mentioned that God was not truthful when he stated "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Gen 2:16-17 (ESV)

The apologetic has been given by I think yourself and few others that God wan't speaking of a physical death on that day but some type of Spiritual death. This then would be the first death. Physical death then would be a second death, so are you telling us now that there are three deaths?

I don't think anyone could find any reasonable scriptural evidence within the pages of the Bible no matter how they twist things to justify the concept of three deaths

Edited November 15, 2012 by Fawzo

[Dan56]

What is your version of the lucifer myth?

My version is what I interpret from the bible, and right or wrong, I don't think its a myth. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28: 11-19 as I interpret them are describing Satan/Lucifer. Essentially, Lucifer was the cherub (angel) that guarded the mercy seat, but he fell to pride and also caused a third of heaven to rebel with him against God (Revelation 12:4). Things got messy after that.

Dan if I'm not mistaken when people in the past have mentioned that God was not truthful when he stated "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Gen 2:16-17 (ESV)

The apologetic has been given by I think yourself and few others that God wan't speaking of a physical death on that day but some type of Spiritual death. This then would be the first death. Physical death then would be a second death, so are you telling us now that there are three deaths?

I don't think anyone could find any reasonable scriptural evidence within the pages of the Bible no matter how they twist things to justify the concept of three deaths

Nothing in those 3 verses indicated a third death? We can only perish physically and spiritually, there's not a third option (cats aside). "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). A&E sinned and died spiritually when the Tree of Life (Christ) was removed from the garden. Those outside of Christ are spiritually dead, your either alive in Christ or dead to sin. Physical death comes first, but technically, you don't spiritually perish until after judgement.

[Pastor Dave]

So you are against folks who are inspired by Spirits to write Holy Books.....very interesting.

point Fawzo

However

1 John 4:1 CJB Dear friends, don’t trust every spirit. On the contrary, test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[Fawzo]

Nothing in those 3 verses indicated a third death? We can only perish physically and spiritually, there's not a third option (cats aside). "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). A&E sinned and died spiritually when the Tree of Life (Christ) was removed from the garden. Those outside of Christ are spiritually dead, your either alive in Christ or dead to sin. Physical death comes first, but technically, you don't spiritually perish until after judgement.

Dan you can't be a little dead it is like being a little pregnant. Adam and Eve died Spiritually first according to you "in that day" in the garden, and also according to you we are all Spiritually Dead now before we accept Christ. So Spiritual death has already occurred and as I have stated was the 1st death. Physical death is the second death and it seems you are conjuring up this 3rd death to try and scare folks, because logic dictates that one can't die Spiritually twice.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Fawzo

[Fawzo]

point Fawzo

However

1 John 4:1 CJB Dear friends, don’t trust every spirit. On the contrary, test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I can't argue with that verse Pastor Dave and I have a very stringent set of criteria I use to test the spirits. Sorry to say but the Bible doesn't pass my test. I use a scale. On one side for every true, loving compassionate act and teaching I place one golden grain of sand, on the other side for every vain, jealous, vengeful angry insecure untrue act I place a grain of normal sand. Sad to say when testing the Bible I ran out of grains of normal sand and it bent my scale ; )

[Dan56]

Dan you can't be a little dead it is like being a little pregnant. Adam and Eve died Spiritually first according to you "in that day" in the garden, and also according to you we are all Spiritually Dead now before we accept Christ. So Spiritual death has already occurred and as I have stated was the 1st death. Physical death is the second death and it seems you are conjuring up this 3rd death to try and scare folks, because logic dictates that one can't die Spiritually twice.

When the bible speaks of being spiritually dead, its describing a separated from God. Sin separated A&E from God, so the day they sinned, they spiritually died. It simply means that they lost everlasting life. The parable of the prodigal son teaches that a lost soul separated from the Father is dead, but a soul is quickened and made alive when reunited with the Father; "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found" (Luke 15:24).

[Songster]

This was an interesting read.... but being late (or rather early), I will return to make comment when my mind is fully alert.