Bluecat Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Some time ago I added a new motto to my signature line:Nolite alimentare trollibusIt's partly decent Latin, but I had to invent a word, because the Romans do not seem to have encountered the Scandinavian belief in trolls - or if they did, it has left no trace in their language. It's always tricky when you want to translate something unknown to the speakers of the language you're translating into. Do you look for an approximate?The Romans had a word for giants - gigantes, - but trolls are not exactly the same as giants, and some of them are not even very big. A Norwegian advert to encourage children to brush their teeth, for instance, shows tiny trolls of tooth decay being thwarted, and my Finnish friend Margarita was told as a child that trolls lived behind the chimney.You could call a troll a troglodyte - troglodytarum according to some Latin dictionaries - but the word actually comes from the Ancient Greek for cave dweller.So not only the wrong language, but associated with the Greek speakers who built underground cities in Cappadocia, and who had no trollish characteristics as far as I know. So... as the grammar could result in an ending ~ibus, and as 'trolley bus' is a thing in English, the last word is trollibus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qryos Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 ~ Personally, I believe that abusing language is the only way to make it squeal right No, not correct. Because if you're doing it correctly it would squeal left ... OK... All that would be left would be the squeal from the center & that would be where I was right & ...Ahhh...Desipere in loco! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 You are trying to translate the wrong thing. The word "troll", in context, does not derive from a Scandinavian myth, but from a form of fishing. When trolling for fish, you drop a lure out of the back of a moving boat and hope something bites. When trolling the internet, you drop an inflammatory comment and hope someone takes offense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youch Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Never eat a troll?? Its been years, but I know I am close......I prefer, Nolite Umquam Oblivisci, but your mileage may vary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 You are trying to translate the wrong thing. The word "troll", in context, does not derive from a Scandinavian myth, but from a form of fishing. When trolling for fish, you drop a lure out of the back of a moving boat and hope something bites. When trolling the internet, you drop an inflammatory comment and hope someone takes offense....Yes, but 'don't feed the fishermen' seems a bit mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qryos Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 ~ Since I don't know any Latin at all, perhaps you wisenheimers could translate, oh..."Don't feed the hunting scavengers"or"Ignore the offal depositors"... Seem like things Romans would have said at one time or many... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mererdog Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yes, but 'don't feed the fishermen' seems a bit mean.Whereas calling people monsters is somehow kind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Whereas calling people monsters is somehow kind?You need to take that up with whatever international committee decided that people who behave in a certain way on the internet should be called trolls. It is, after all, a comment on behaviour, not on nature.Personally, I'm not convinced by that etymology of 'troll'. That kind of fishing is called 'trawling', in British English at least. Trawling does derive from 'troller', but that's French, not Norse. Convergent evolution, perhaps?I've always thought that it was to do with the supposed troll habit of lurking under bridges and trying to prevent the Billy Goats from getting to the fresh green grass on the other side - which is already moving some way from Scandinavian mythology to the realms of folklore and tall tale.The effects of the internet troll on the frank and free exchange of views are pretty close to the effects that are attributed to trolls in Scandinavian popular culture.But not very much like the effects of fishermen - not even on the fish.My book has a troll story which Bendigo collected in Sweden from someone who claimed it had really happened to her. Refer to that for the effect of trolls (buy now while stocks last! ). Edited July 31, 2012 by Bluecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwater Vitki Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Even Odhinn, Thor, Mimir and many other gods had their problems with trolls. There is indeed a big difference between "trolls", dwarfs, faeries and the like, however, in the Scandi sagas that I'm aware of, trolls were the consorts of Loki, Helja and several of the other underworld or Schwartzheimer gods .... and usually up to no good.Also, "feeding" the trolls was not specifically food, rather it was more in tune with a person's activities and mostly that of children. Like so many of our Fairy Tales, these stories of Doing That Which is Right were meant to teach children good character, true morals and ethical behavior. Just how that was done by putting the fear of being dismembered, roasted and eaten with knäckebröd and a horn of mead is beyond me, but I guess it worked. So how ever it all works inte foder trollinger!Blessings Be, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 In the story B collected from Siggi in Sweden, her grandfather told her (sometime in the early 1960s in Western Sweden) that a troll might pass through the garden from time to time, but probably wouldn't stick around if you did the right things (specifically, putting iron in one of the trees in the garden).But if you didn't do that, a troll which came along might decide to stay. It might even come and sit in the kitchen. You wouldn't see it, but a house with a troll sitting in the kitchen can never be a happy house.If you ever read the Moomintroll stories by Tove Jansson, the Groke has something of the same effect, even though she never actually does anything.Then Siggi saw something which made her think a troll was passing through their garden... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qryos Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 ~ Sorry tree, you're nailed now! ... put in it's place.Dammm trolls!The trees hammered like that? Just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Putting iron nails into trees as a protection or offering is not that unusual, and the idea that evils of certain sorts can't abide iron is pretty widespread.Couple of years ago we were walking in North Yorkshire, a beautiful walk in a narrow valley with waterfalls, near Kirkby Lonsdale, and found an old tree which had had coins stuck into cracks in the bark.I mean, hundreds of small denomination coins, obviously put there over many, many years - the bark has grown over a lot of them. I saw enough to recognise that some of the coins were probably pre-decimalisation (ie before 1971).Why? What were people thinking? Offerings to the genus loci? Or, likeb the Trevi Fountain in Rome, a wish to come back some day?That part of Britain is very Norse influenced, as the place names suggest: It is the village with a church (Kirkby) in the dale of the River Lune. Only 'Lune' is not Old Norse. Edited August 3, 2012 by Bluecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 In the '70s, in the Pacific Northwest, people would drive iron spikes deep into trees so that when they were cut and run thru the sawmill, it would cause serious damage to both equipment and men when it came into contact with the various saw blades. It was done as a protest of one sort or another and then copied by people who did it out of meanness. Of course, my belief was that they all did it out of meanness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwater Vitki Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Couple of years ago we were walking in North Yorkshire, a beautiful walk in a narrow valley with waterfalls, near Kirkby Lonsdale, and found an old tree which had had coins stuck into cracks in the bark. The coins in the trees, being a Norse area, goes along with the Winter Solstice and Ostara theme of the vikings. Putting treats and/or coins out during these holidays was to keep the trolls, elves and other malfeasant beings away. I don't know what the specific local customs may be attached to it, but in Scandinavia you'll find tree like that all over the northern areas. I saw at least 40-50 of them when up around Näs Lake In the '70s, in the Pacific Northwest, people would drive iron spikes deep into trees so that when they were cut and run thru the sawmill, "Rainbow", "Sun Beam", "Silver Moon", "Snow" and "Elfie" were still doing that in the '90's when I moved up to Humboldt...no, really, those were their names. "Rainbow Flower" or some such moniker managed a tree sit in for over 10 months before the loggers finally got permission from the sheriff to put the saw to the tree....she came scrambling down in an instant when they lit off those 4' chainsaws.Look, I totally support sustained forests, which mean replanting is done after harvest and all California logging industries do so. It's actually better for the land as they plant so that specialized tractor style cutters can come in 60-100 years, leaving an almost zero foot print. When you go through the replanted areas from the late 1890's to 1920's, the trees are twice as healthy as ancient natural growth. The wood has a tighter, more consistent grain etc etc...you can visit Pacific Lumber, or Palco.com for the whole story if ya like....but causing deliberate harm to people to support a cause, well I'm glad there are laws protecting to some degree about that. BTW, "Rainbow Flower" was arrested on a number of charges from trespass to tree spiking. During her inflammatory radio shows, (she would send tapes to local underground radio stations) she admitted to numerous spikings of which several caused injury...not a very smart protester.Blessings of Peace, Edited August 3, 2012 by Atwater Vitki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The coins in the trees, being a Norse area, goes along with the Winter Solstice and Ostara theme of the vikings. Putting treats and/or coins out during these holidays was to keep the trolls, elves and other malfeasant beings away. I don't know what the specific local customs may be attached to it, but in Scandinavia you'll find tree like that all over the northern areas. I saw at least 40-50 of them when up around Näs LakeOld custom all over England was to put out milk for the pucks or the pooks (which comes from the Cornish Bucca - devil, and may be related to Buggaboo and Bogey - but these were considered friendly critters) or the hobs, in the hopes that they would continue to bless the place.But apotropaeic offerings are often made of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qryos Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 ~ A six-foot tall white rabbit came hopping through Walmart a few months ago...{ "And how are you Mr. Wilson?" }Yes, other people saw it also! I was not the only pookah viewer. It's a college town, who knows I don't know, it just feels wrong to place any metal in a tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 How about "belua"? Or "laestrygones"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qryos Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 ~ I enjoy Starz late-night movies... Watched 'Trollhunter' last night. Norewegen { sub-titles done very well! } & it was really very good Seriously, get a chance, give it a glance .... Troll-hunting for the government is a sucky job ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zequatanil Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Now--this is really off topic here:Some while ago, I can`t remember who asked a question from whom in the hot-seat--`are you the same in real life than on line`. I thought that to be very profound. If we are genuine, honest about our feelings, responses then why be it in secret--or if we are a then we are being dishonest, ashamed to be where we are--in this forum or wherever-- with ourselves and others. That is why yesterday I asked about the `photo` question--very few in the area that Dorian Gray suggested, but some. Most--like myself have a face book page--and most can access it. Secrets that we do not want to reveal we don`t anyway--we all have skeletons in the cupboard--that`s life. Yes--Nestingwave dosn`t have one here, but he has a lovely one on his blog site--so why can`t everyone here put one up. We are what we are--good, bad, ugly--very few are beautiful but that is always in the eye of the beholder In truth---this is the only forum where they don`t know who I am. I have always had my own name and stood up for anything I said during daylight not only at night--I know the world is a dangerous place, especially the internet, but one dosn`t have to reveal all. It is dangerous to walk down the street, to cross the road or sit into the car. I sure as hell will not send a dime to the Nigerian princess who needs to get her billion $ out of Nigeria promising me 10%-- Today--if someone wants to find one they can anyway--for $10 all you want--that is if you are an upstanding citizen, otherwise no one can ever find you, but then you woudn`t have a computer either--and would be be here! Don`t get me wrong--I don`t mean post an address, phone number and all the details of life--that would be very unwise--but the bare minimum.!Maybe I am just strange--just my humble observation. Hh--just one more --if I am ashamed of being here, then why am I here?--blessings,S......Suzanne Edited September 14, 2012 by Tündér Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now--this is really off topic here:Some while ago, I can`t remember who asked a question from whom in the hot-seat--`are you the same in real life than on line`. I thought that to be very profound. If we are genuine, honest about our feelings, responses then why be it in secret--or if we are a then we are being dishonest, ashamed to be where we are--in this forum or wherever-- with ourselves and others. That is why yesterday I asked about the `photo` question--very few in the area that Dorian Gray suggested, but some. Most--like myself have a face book page--and most can access it. Secrets that we do not want to reveal we don`t anyway--we all have skeletons in the cupboard--that`s life. Yes--Nestingwave dosn`t have one here, but he has a lovely one on his blog site--so why can`t everyone here put one up. We are what we are--good, bad, ugly--very few are beautiful but that is always in the eye of the beholder In truth---this is the only forum where they don`t know who I am. I have always had my own name and stood up for anything I said during daylight not only at night--I know the world is a dangerous place, especially the internet, but one dosn`t have to reveal all. It is dangerous to walk down the street, to cross the road or sit into the car. I sure as hell will not send a dime to the Nigerian princess who needs to get her billion $ out of Nigeria promising me 10%-- Today--if someone wants to find one they can anyway--for $10 all you want--that is if you are an upstanding citizen, otherwise no one can ever find you, but then you woudn`t have a computer either--and would be be here! Don`t get me wrong--I don`t mean post an address, phone number and all the details of life--that would be very unwise--but the bare minimum.!Maybe I am just strange--just my humble observation. Hh--just one more --if I am ashamed of being here, then why am I here?--blessings,S......SuzanneMany, many people wear different faces depending on the situation. Before I retired, I was a different person at work than when I was at home. I am a different person as a husband than as a father and different yet as a grandfather. I am not always the same to each clerk at each store that I shop. I am a different person to each of my friends. The difficulty, or ease, of being on line is that you can be the same person to everyone on a particular forum or social site such as this forum or facebook. The problem with these venues are that we cannot see each other as we communicate to see the wry smile, the look of hatred, the compassion in the eyes, the body language. I don't see as a picture of our selves would help to know each other. Knowing what a person looks like does not translate to knowing the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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