Being Well-Mannered

[Hyper Real]

Being well-mannered, how important is it to you, and how do you think does it tie in with raising your children?

I am thinking of things like social etiquette, business etiquette, table manners, the art of conversation, courtesy to others etc.

[Brother Kaman]

Parents are the most influential role models a child can have.

[Atwater Vitki]

Being well-mannered, how important is it to you, and how do you think does it tie in with raising your children?

I am thinking of things like social etiquette, business etiquette, table manners, the art of conversation, courtesy to others etc.

Well, this might be a repeat to some, but I don't necessarily believe we need Ozzie and Harriet as our role models, but the free swinging lifestyle of Ozzy and Sharon is a bit extreme as well, even though some might agree that Sharon is a pretty classy "ohd skoo" gal!

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should not be able to get their ideas, ideals, values, comments and thoughts across in any public setting without saying disparaging things towards the person that holds any such opposing views. It is one thing to adamantly disagree or debate an issue, while a completely different and separate issue to disparage, slur or belittle the person holding such views that we may disagree with. After all, there are very few issues that have a patented "right" or "wrong" theoretical advantage.

As far as the importance to our children, it should be the ultimate and primary goal of every parent to pass along moralistic and ethically acceptable standards to their offspring. Frankly, IMO, there are many pro-creators that have no business being "parents", but I'll leave that for another topic on another day.

Blessings of Peace,

Edited February 21, 2012 by Atwater Vitki

[Hyper Real]

Parents are the most influential role models a child can have.

I agree that parents are certainly a very important role model but I certainly do not see that limited to parents. An uncle, a teacher, and later in life, a union member, a student union president, a fellow board member, all those could be role models.

A child who never seen his father in a suit, or a child who never saw his parents use a knife and fork properly, let alone the right hand to hold the soup spoon. A child who never learns the art of conversation, politeness and courtesy will, in my opinion, have a harder time fitting in later in life.

It takes me less than a second to recognize a person in a suit who never learned how to be comfortable in a suit.

[simplicitys-brother]

Being well-mannered, how important is it to you, and how do you think does it tie in with raising your children?

I am thinking of things like social etiquette, business etiquette, table manners, the art of conversation, courtesy to others etc.

It is critical for me. It is nothing more than granting beingness to other people which is the most important thing that can be done for them and it doesn't matter how much money or fame or looks they have. Granting beingness to others allows us to grant beingness to ourselves and in order to be, We have to have beingness. It goes right along with Havingness and Doingness.

It is in no way limited to table manners or holding doors or saying Ma'am or Sir but it is allowing others to be what they think they are. Some could call it love.

[Brother Kaman]

I agree that parents are certainly a very important role model but I certainly do not see that limited to parents. An uncle, a teacher, and later in life, a union member, a student union president, a fellow board member, all those could be role models.

A child who never seen his father in a suit, or a child who never saw his parents use a knife and fork properly, let alone the right hand to hold the soup spoon. A child who never learns the art of conversation, politeness and courtesy will, in my opinion, have a harder time fitting in later in life.

It takes me less than a second to recognize a person in a suit who never learned how to be comfortable in a suit.

You are quite correct. I did not say that parents were always the best choice as role model, only that they were the most influential.

[Hyper Real]

It is critical for me.

And may I say that it certainly shows, we do not agree on many topics but I have never seen any incivility from you.

[Qryos]

~ My husband & I were just discussing this

The job of a parent is to teach a child how to be a member of this society & hopefully to flourish as such.

& yep, at times parents are incapable of doing their job.

Of course parents are generally the most influencial, extended family { my husband has our grandbabes 50 hrs a week }. teachers, counselors,

& <erp> other children exert influence... Learning to be a mamber of this society is important. Manners & civility & control are very important.

Kudos to those that support and nurture children to become civilized beings everywhere!!!

[Fawzo]

Being well-mannered, how important is it to you, and how do you think does it tie in with raising your children?

I am thinking of things like social etiquette, business etiquette, table manners, the art of conversation, courtesy to others etc.

Aren't these things relative to one's social class. The normal person could teach what they believe to be good every day manners to their children but many of these teachings would still seem crass compared to the type of manners used in Higher Social Circles like Buckingham Palace.

[Qryos]

~ True manners do not point-out the lack of such in others.

Place your napkin in your lap.

When seated at a place setting with many utensils, start with the outer-most appliance, some meals it's a spoon, some a fork. Work inwards with each course.

Scoop soup away from yourself. Place the spoon upon the plate under the bowl when not eating, not in the bowl.

Place your knife & fork on the upper edge of your plate when not eating.

Keep your elbows off the table. Do not reach across for accoutrements, ask for the butter or salt or potatoes to be passed to you.

Do not talk with food in your mouth and close your lips while you chew.

Food is passed to the right to be served.

Do not gesture with a utensil in your hand.

If you do not like a food, say, "No thank you." If something is unpleasant in your mouth quietly pick up your napkin & put it there. { Napkin on the lap is discrete. }

When done with your plate place your utensils across it & your napkin upon it.

Say "Thank you, that was lovely!". Try not to burp or fart too loudly.

Bon Apetite!

[Songster]

I was raised in the South in a military family, and my parents were diligent in their duty to instruct me in proper decorum and social etiquette. In addition to the table rules related by Qryos above, here are some of the rules of etiquette that I still live by today.

All women are to be shown the proper respect and addressed according to their marital status. A married woman is always addressed as "Mrs. Husband's Last-name" (never by their first name) and always answered with a "Yes, Ma'am" or "No, Ma'am." (Ex.- Mr. Edwards wife was Mrs. Edwards.)

A widowed woman has the option of keeping her married name, or modifying it at her discretion. (Ex.- Mrs. Edwards chose to be called Ms. Evelyn when her husband passed, while Mrs. Morris kept her married name.)

Young girls are addressed in public as "Miss First-name Middle-name" until permission is given to address them in private by one name only. (Ex.- Miss Roberta Josephine allowed me to call her Bobby Jo, but Miss Mary Elizabeth preferred Mary and hated to be called Mary Beth.)

Boys are referred to as "Master First-name Middle-name Last-name" until mutual agreement is reached and the "Master" and "Last-name" are dropped. (Ex.- My boyhood friend, Master Elmon Simms Edwards became Elmon Simms, and was later shortened further to Elmon.)

A gentleman always stands when a woman enters a room, he holds or stands behind her chair when she desires to sit, and rises immediately should she decide to leave the room.

A gentleman always opens and holds the door for a woman to enter first, and then follows her into a building. When exiting a building, the man opens the door, exits first, and then holds the door allowing the woman to exit.

When walking with a lady, the gentleman always walks on the woman's left unless they are walking along a street, when the gentleman takes the side closest to traffic.

A gentleman always stands when he shakes hands with a lady, and should never presume to kiss her hand or cheek unless it is presented for that purpose. Never greet or shake another man's hand while seated.

A gentleman always displays proper respect for another man's authority by addressing his superiors in public as "Mr. Last-name" and answering all questions with "Yes, Sir" or "No, Sir." (Many of my bosses have been many years younger than me, and several have requested that I refrain from adding "Sir" to my response. After declining the offer, I apologize and explain that my behavior is indicative of my training, and I can not/will not address them in more familiar terms unless we are engaged in private conversation well away from any others.)

There are, of course, many more.... but time requires me to end this now.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Songster

[mererdog]

Manners, etiquette and the like are nothing more than base social prejudices. They exist solely to separate the "pleasant" from the non-, and in so doing separate the "desirable" from the un-. They are, in short, some of the many ways the Man keeps everybody down. That said, the sad truth is that I am burdened with a fairly ingrained sense of gentility that is hard to retrain...

Edited February 23, 2012 by mererdog

[grateful]

social etiquette is a lost art, civility gone elsewhere it seems

while I agree that certain trends and social mores attached to "manners" can be indicative of the man keeping folks down

but can we talk about just being NICE to others? and respectful? you meet alot of wonderful people that way

[Qryos]

~ Manners keeping people down? That's when there are no manners shown actually

Being rude to anyone, whether they display proper etiquette in a specific situation or not, is not mannerly.

Striving to make others comfortable, assisting them with any situation they are uncomfortable with gently and with consideration is showing manners.

Yes. There are etiquette rules & formulas out-dated & unnecessary & were originally pretty darn silly in the first place!

Queen Victoria of England ushered-in the 'Victorian Age'... Chairs, tables, pianos, etc. all had to have covered legs { lust don't ya know! } & women then had 'limbs'.

No bossoms, no ears, no necks, no wrists nor ankles to be shown. By anyone. Ever. Bathtubs with covers so you wouldn't see yourself.

Tea cups with little handles so the pinky finger was held out.

Specific spoons for white sugar or honey to mix your tea. Spoons & knives to deal with toast... many. A lot of this has been lost { woe is us! }

Not many people these days need to worry about dining with gloves or tying a Windsor knot, but observing basic rules of manner do softly & gently ease society.

Simply often saying "Please" & "Thank you" can get anyone much farther than "Gimme!"

[Brother Kaman]

Manners, etiquette and the like are nothing more than base social prejudices. They exist solely to separate the "pleasant" from the non-, and in so doing separate the "desirable" from the un-. They are, in short, some of the many ways the Man keeps everybody down. That said, the sad truth is that I am burdened with a fairly ingrained sense of gentility that is hard to retrain...

Manners promote civility and keep folks from ripping each other's throats out. A well mannered person would not deliberately cut one off in traffic or respond to it with the the "finger", threats, or violence. Allowing a lady with small children or a man with arms burdened with bags go before you as you hold the door, is good manners. The list is long and has nothing to do with "social etiquette" or where to place the freaking spoon on the table. It is just common courtesy and an effort to be polite.

[Hyper Real]

I do not consider using expletives part of being well mannered.

Edited February 26, 2012 by hyperreal

[mererdog]

Manners promote civility and keep folks from ripping each other's throats out.

Actually, they don't. They promote abdication of individual moral responsibility in favor of unthinking routine. Often, that leads to quite a lot of throat ripping when two "well-mannered" people's routine behavior patterns clash...

A well mannered person would not deliberately cut one off in traffic or respond to it with the the "finger", threats, or violence.

By your standard of what qualifies as "well mannered" that may very well be a simple matter of definition. But, see, all you are really doing is saying "I prefer it when people do this to when they do that".

It is just common courtesy and an effort to be polite.

In my experience, trying to be rude can only produce rudeness at about 1/1000th the intensity of the rudeness that can be produced by trying to being polite.. Edited February 26, 2012 by mererdog

[Brother Kaman]

I do not consider using expletives part of being well mannered.

Then let us hope you are well mannered.

Actually, they don't. They promote abdication of individual moral responsibility in favor of unthinking routine. Often, that leads to quite a lot of throat ripping when two "well-mannered" people's routine behavior patterns clash...

By your standard of what qualifies as "well mannered" that may very well be a simple matter of definition. But, see, all you are really doing is saying "I prefer it when people do this to when they do that".

In my experience, trying to be rude can only produce rudeness at about 1/1000th the intensity of the rudeness that can be produced by trying to being polite..

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is well mannered of me to respect your opinion.

[Atwater Vitki]

Take a trip to Raley's™, Save Mart^© or Food 4 Less™ (Central California), and while it's not 100% the norm, it's a good 98%....the "class" of shoppers....

Raley's™ is your "upper crust" high priced, extreme customer service related store with the aisles filled with "specialty products", imported foods and even small gardening and aroma centers for all the fancy centerpieces and candles for dining tables. I have yet to see someone on a cell phone inside the store.

Save Mart^© is the "middle class" to the above extreme with a partial aisle of things for a dinner table. If they are on a cell, it's usually pretty quiet and short.

Food4Less™ is your discount, day old bread store with a household goods isles for items geared towards eating wherever you happen to be sitting. *See below*

Now sit back and watch the shoppers that come in. Two of these stores, gee I'll let you guess, have mellow music, you can hear above the quiet talk of customers while the other has some sort of static ladened blur of heavy metal noise that is filtered through screaming kids, shouting parents and *people yelling into their cell phones* above all the other noise.

I absolutely hate going to Food 4 Less™, but I can't argue with the dry and canned goods prices that balance our meager food budget. It seems every month when I go there, usually around the 7^th or 8^th to avoid EBT Card day, some kid will either ram a cart into me, parents are having a full on screaming match with each other and/or the kids or "junior" and "l'il missy" are playing bowling with the melons and canned goods. Finger punched holes in nearly every loaf of bread, crushed and broken boxes of pasta, frozen goods misplaced onto dry goods shelves (and frequently put back in freezer by clerks) or opened and empty cans of soda or juice boxes hidden in every aisle.

If everywhere we went was like Food 4 Less™, we would indeed buy 100% off the Schwann's truck and simply suffer the other 10-15 days of the month we had nothing.

Even the doctor's office I went to last week, which I will not be returning to, the doctor took a pharmaceutical sales call during my appointment and took at least an extra 10 minutes getting in to me because her daughter was in "crisis" over an after school snack and called Mom about it. The receptionists were short worded and on the verge of rude, talked loudly over each other screening phone calls and refused to help a nearly blind older lady fill out some paperwork (Yes indeed I helped her) with a "so, if it takes you longer than your appointment time, I guess you'll just have to wait until we can fit you in!" Say what??? And these are the same type of little 20-something twits that demand respect when talking to them!?!?

There's nothing wrong with society.... except for the lack of basic manners and etiquette.

It's very sad when a person's few days out per month is filled with prime examples for retroactive birth control, but hey, this is what a classless society brings on itself. It doesn't have to be the nose in the air, hoity-toity upper class, but it doesn't have to be trash mouth and bad behavior either. I long for the days of the average, run of the mill, middle of the road society where there was a modicum of decency and respect for everybody.

Blessings of Peace,

[Hyper Real]

You bring up a good point Atwater Vitki and that is that many lower class people often lack well mannered role models.

What I believe we can do about it is education, education of the disadvantaged youth, during school and after school programs.

Can we blame a youth for using expletives if they hear that all the time from their parents?