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Fawzo

God's Wife

17 posts in this topic

In a book written by John Day I read that Asherah was an appropriation of the wife of the god El. El being the Caananite god with whom Yahweh had come to be equated... El had a wife,Athirat, Yahweh didn't - but for some he " acquired a wife " through converts of El.

Interesting for the story of the ten commandments, that El was symbolized by the Bull as well.... which took a while to stamp out... Interesting as well that they may have been worshiping, in the calf, the very same God Moses was talking to - and yet the anger....

It is widely assumed that Ashirat is a much more likely candidate for inspiration of Asherah than Astarte or Ishtar... The author is relying on dated material for their conclusion. I have found the same thing in various places... as well as the misinformation.

Edited by Brother Michael Sky

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But they have pottery shards with the words Yaweh with his Asherah I do believe.

I tried to attach photo but wont let me for some reason

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But they have pottery shards with the words Yaweh with his Asherah I do believe.

I tried to attach photo but wont let me for some reason

Yes, they believe that Asherah is a holdover representation of the wife of El - whose adherants became Yahweh adherants over time... guess they couldn't relate to a god who needed no wife....

It is more understandable when one Realizes that there was no defining moment in the worship of the early gods. the established gods didn't just disappear when a new one came on the scene - it was a slow blending process usually... giving the characteristics of a favored god to a new favored god - so as to be able to " secretly " worship the god you felt you were abandoning...

So yes, in effect they were giving to worship to El and Yahweh, but Yahweh was the NEW focus... most would have seen Yahweh as a newer representation of El... but for those El adherents - Yahweh needed a wife...

Edited by Brother Michael Sky

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Yes it would seem that each tribal community would need their own invisible secret mojo God to help lead into warfare against their neighbor and the ones who won out not only would have become more popular by outcome but because the losing mojo would have lost many and sometimes all of their followers in the fray.

Each group or tribe would have been considered special in the eyes of that Mojo as well which would be only natural thinking if the Mojo was going to help you kill and conquer other peoples. The Mojo couldn't love all peoples equally or why would he help you at al against your neighbor.

One look at the Middle East and one still sees these barbaric ethnocentric tribalistic Bronze Age concepts in full swing.

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Yes it would seem that each tribal community would need their own invisible secret mojo God to help lead into warfare against their neighbor and the ones who won out not only would have become more popular by outcome but because the losing mojo would have lost many and sometimes all of their followers in the fray.

Each group or tribe would have been considered special in the eyes of that Mojo as well which would be only natural thinking if the Mojo was going to help you kill and conquer other peoples. The Mojo couldn't love all peoples equally or why would he help you at al against your neighbor.

One look at the Middle East and one still sees these barbaric ethnocentric tribalistic Bronze Age concepts in full swing.

Bingo, Fawzo ... and we mustn't forget there has always been a " politically correct " option... the ones in control set up the idol....

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The Sanatana Veda Dharma in the Rig Veda states that there is only One Supreme Being (see Rig Veda I:164.46)that is known by different names. Nevertheless popular Hiduism worships both female and male deities. Most Gods have a wife, a Goddess that can be worshiped together with the God or alone: Lord Brahma has Mother Saraswati, Lord Vishnu has Mother Lakshmi, Lord Shiva has Mother Parvatti. Mother Parvatti is also worshipped as the Black Goddess Kali, who is very popular in India. Traditionally in my Sampradaya (spiritual tradition) we worship a Supreme God, but we can call that God Divine Mother or Heavenly Father.

Hermano Luis

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The early Catholic establishment pretty thoroughly did away with the female aspect of the Divine... undoubtedly because her role as comforter and supporter was at odds with certain messages of hellfire and immanent danger... and the things they got up to in fertility temples was troubling, to say the least, to stodgy old geezers preaching hellfire... how are they gonna intercede for you there? :devil:

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The early Catholic establishment pretty thoroughly did away with the female aspect of the Divine... undoubtedly because her role as comforter and supporter was at odds with certain messages of hellfire and immanent danger... and the things they got up to in fertility temples was troubling, to say the least, to stodgy old geezers preaching hellfire... how are they gonna intercede for you there? :devil:

Holy Mary Mother of God, how could they do such a thing !!!! :)

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The early LDS (Mormon) church taught that their was a "Heavenly Mother".

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The early LDS (Mormon) church taught that their was a "Heavenly Mother".

The ancient pagan world had a "Queen of Heaven" -- long before Mother Mary. :)

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The ancient pagan world had a "Queen of Heaven" -- long before Mother Mary. :)

any particular ancient pagan world?

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any particular ancient pagan world?

I was thinking of the ancient Middle East. Like "God" today, known by many names and titles, but always the same Goddess. To her children, Holy Mother and Protector, Queen of Heaven. To all others, pure terror. :)

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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I was thinking of the ancient Middle East. Like "God" today, known by many names and titles, but always the same Goddess. To her children, Holy Mother and Protector, Queen of Heaven. To all others, pure terror. :)

We were recently talking about Asherah, whom I find to be an interesting subject... in the God's wife thread...

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We were recently talking about Asherah, whom I find to be an interesting subject... in the God's wife thread...

If you want an interesting goddess, there is nobody quite like Sekhmet, the lion headed goddess, of the Egyptian mythos. Her worship was ancient before the Jewish god was anything more than a minor tribal deity. In her story, she went into a killing frenzy. The other gods thought she might destroy all of humanity. None dared oppose her. The other gods finally took a huge quantity of beer, which they colored the color of Human blood. They left it where she would find it. Only when she was too drunk too kill did the killing stop.

Sekhmet is also considered a healing goddess, and the source of modern day seikhim reiki.

:)

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If you want an interesting goddess, there is nobody quite like Sekhmet, the lion headed goddess, of the Egyptian mythos. Her worship was ancient before the Jewish god was anything more than a minor tribal deity. In her story, she went into a killing frenzy. The other gods thought she might destroy all of humanity. None dared oppose her. The other gods finally took a huge quantity of beer, which they colored the color of Human blood. They left it where she would find it. Only when she was too drunk too kill did the killing stop.

Sekhmet is also considered a healing goddess, and the source of modern day seikhim reiki.

:)

This is what I find interesting - and that which MUST have been happening constantly....

You use Sekhmet, and African twist to an older being, and call on her being for assistance in healing. She was seen as the destroyer - which was the " harsh " aspect of Hathor... and only when combined with Hathor was she called upon for healing... as a slightly different deity...

I find it very interesting that such a being should be called on for an exact opposite reason, than would have been the case the people who existed, who recognized such a being as a god... someone who is thousands of years removed from the worship of such a being still calls on that name... All I can say is : interesting...

Here is the reason that it is so hard to follow the TRUTH of history...

I do believe Nerfertum is who you are referring to... I apologize if I am mistaken in your understanding... this is simply my understanding from my studies of Egyptian mythos...

edit#2: cause I'm scatterbrained....

Asherah would be an exact match for a name to call upon in reiki..... and because the beliefs of Judaism were not recorded until a specific time, does not mean that the belief of the being involved is of a later manufacture... The Jews kept oral tales which referred to Asherah since ancient antiquity:

A Hebrew inscription on a broken storage jar, found in Kuntillet 'Ajrud in north-eastern Sinai and dated from the beginning of the eighth century BCE has three primitive figures: a standing male figure in the foreground; a female figure just behind him; and a seated musician in the background. The Hebrew inscription above the drawing reads: 'I bless you by Yhwh of Samaria and his Asherah' (Dever, 1984; King, 1989). Furthermore, a tomb inscription from el-Qom in Judea, dated to the eighth century BCE too, concludes with the words: 'to Yhwh and his Asherah' (Margalit, 1989, 1990 and further references there).

I realize that the timeline for Egypt stretches back ( officially ) for 5,000 years... but I do not see how to keep these things completely separated for clarity.... I think there was influence back and forth between cultures as people wandered here and there... the gods and goddesses blend and merge and are separated again...

Edited by Brother Michael Sky

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This is what I find interesting - and that which MUST have been happening constantly....

You use Sekhmet, and African twist to an older being, and call on her being for assistance in healing. She was seen as the destroyer - which was the " harsh " aspect of Hathor... and only when combined with Hathor was she called upon for healing... as a slightly different deity...

I find it very interesting that such a being should be called on for an exact opposite reason, than would have been the case the people who existed, who recognized such a being as a god... someone who is thousands of years removed from the worship of such a being still calls on that name... All I can say is : interesting...

Here is the reason that it is so hard to follow the TRUTH of history...

I do believe Nerfertum is who you are referring to... I apologize if I am mistaken in your understanding... this is simply my understanding from my studies of Egyptian mythos...

edit#2: cause I'm scatterbrained....

Asherah would be an exact match for a name to call upon in reiki..... and because the beliefs of Judaism were not recorded until a specific time, does not mean that the belief of the being involved is of a later manufacture... The Jews kept oral tales which referred to Asherah since ancient antiquity:

I realize that the timeline for Egypt stretches back ( officially ) for 5,000 years... but I do not see how to keep these things completely separated for clarity.... I think there was influence back and forth between cultures as people wandered here and there... the gods and goddesses blend and merge and are separated again...

I agree with you about the culture shifting over time. The gods change with the times. Not the literal gods of course. It is symbolism.

The ancient Greeks worshiped the three Fates. So did the Norse. Today, we have Lady Luck. She is one now instead of three, but she is what is left of the Fates. What is more, Lady Luck is still worshiped.

Have you seen the movie, "Guys and Dolls?" When Sky Masterson (Marlon Brando) sings -- "Luck be a Lady tonight" -- nobody needs an explanation. We know who Lady Luck is.

Hermes is also very much with us, today. Hermes had an interesting cultural development. He started off as the "messenger of the gods." From there, he became "god of the road." From there, "god of the crossroads." What happens at the crossroads? Commerce, theft, etc. Hermes became the patron god of doctors, merchents, thieves and gamblers. To this day, gamblers still call out their prayers to Hermes. "C'mon seven! Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!"

Of course, nobody understands needing good shoes, like the messenger of the gods. Just look at his winged sandals.

It isn't all about money. Mother Nature is still very much with us. The old Earth Mother lives on in her.

The old gods live. Perhaps in reduced form, but they are still with us. Look past the surface. There they are, in plain sight.

:rolleyes:

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